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What is the right ratio... In your opinion and why???

They are born 1 to 1 (roughly)... Bucks have a higher natural mortality...

I was thinking some where along the lines of 3 does to every buck would be "reasonable"... My stae runs about 10 - 15 to 1.... :confused:but yet we give out 2 buck tags and you have to apply for doe permits.... :confused:
 

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Man.... you just hit a sore spot with me.

This damn state (mass.) doesn't have a clue about the deer heard. For years the population has been going backwards, but yet they boast big numbers because the eastern part is holdinng steady.

My local check sation checked in more archery kills than shotgun kills......What does that tell you?
 

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In our area we have been, generally, around 2 doe - 1 buck. However this year all I saw were little bucks. The doe numbers seemed to be way down.
 

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Although it seems that the buck to doe ratio is like that, in actuality it is more likely 1:3 or 1:4. Even in the most over hunted parts of NY it is only 1:4. Its seems higher because there are so many yearling button bucks that are identified as "does". Without a doubt, the greatest cause of mortality on bucks is human hunting pressure, possibly with the exception of urban areas where road kills plays a significant factor also. Where I hunt in Western MA and that is what I am seeing, about 1:3.
 

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My area of MN is pry about 7-8 to one and this year we had to draw for doe tags for firearms hunters so our 1.5 year old bucks got massacered after the last few years of the nieghboring properties pass some of them not sure where the DNR want the deer #s to be here
 

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Discussion Starter #6
DJ... what do you think this state needs to do to fix it???

And as far as 1:3 or 1:4....

Highly doubt it... The farm I hunt in NY I've seen 32 deer march by my stand in the last two hours... 1 spike, 1 unicorn and the rest does... Trust me.. I glassed every single one of them.. So based on your ratio's, there are what, 8 bucks holding back??? I'm thinking the 1:10 or 1:15 is closer to reality... In my opinion.... Even pre season scouting we see a huge number of does compared to bucks...
 

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DJ... what do you think this state needs to do to fix it???

And as far as 1:3 or 1:4....

Highly doubt it... The farm I hunt in NY I've seen 32 deer march by my stand in the last two hours... 1 spike, 1 unicorn and the rest does... Trust me.. I glassed every single one of them.. So based on your ratio's, there are what, 8 bucks holding back??? I'm thinking the 1:10 or 1:15 is closer to reality... In my opinion.... Even pre season scouting we see a huge number of does compared to bucks...
I know it seems that way. The DEC here in NY has stats to back that up and I am sure the MA DNR does as well. I will say that if you had that many deer walk by your stand and you didn't see any button buck fawns, you are missing them. In the last part of our season I saw over 20 deer on several sits, and never once saw visible antlers. Lots of glassing confirmed many were button bucks. They are easy to miss if you aren't looking for them. Give the MA deer biologist a call, or Jeremy Hurst here in NY, and they will tell you the same.
 

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DJ... what do you think this state needs to do to fix it???

Allow only one buck tag for starters and cut way back on the doe permits. This year in the zones that I hunt, 5 and 6, they issued less doe permits by 200 and 100 respectively. Which will help, but right now it is so bad that hunters aren't motivated to go into the woods even with snow on the ground.
I can remember years back the hunters in the western part of the state complaining about low deer numbers and now that issue has made it's way to the central part.
I also believe that coyotes are a bigger problem than people think. It's been my experience that does will drop their fawns in the same general area every year. I think the coyote's have keyed on that and are killing more fawns. JMO! So open up coyote season to be all year long.
 

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Allow only one buck tag for starters and cut way back on the doe permits. This year in the zones that I hunt, 5 and 6, they issued less doe permits by 200 and 100 respectively. Which will help, but right now it is so bad that hunters aren't motivated to go into the woods even with snow on the ground.
I can remember years back the hunters in the western part of the state complaining about low deer numbers and now that issue has made it's way to the central part.
I also believe that coyotes are a bigger problem than people think. It's been my experience that does will drop their fawns in the same general area every year. I think the coyote's have keyed on that and are killing more fawns. JMO! So open up coyote season to be all year long.
I hunt in the big woods, public land in Berkshire Co. I called in two coyotes last year rattling. Also with the early snow we had the last two years, the deer really got hammered in their yarding areas. Truck were parked all around these spots and it ends up being a slaughter. Although most of the state isn't big woods, the MA DNR should do something to prevent these critical areas from getting hammered in the late season. On a positive note I am seeing more moose than ever, and some really good bulls.
 

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DJ... what do you think this state needs to do to fix it???

Allow only one buck tag for starters and cut way back on the doe permits. This year in the zones that I hunt, 5 and 6, they issued less doe permits by 200 and 100 respectively. Which will help, but right now it is so bad that hunters aren't motivated to go into the woods even with snow on the ground.
I can remember years back the hunters in the western part of the state complaining about low deer numbers and now that issue has made it's way to the central part.
I also believe that coyotes are a bigger problem than people think. It's been my experience that does will drop their fawns in the same general area every year. I think the coyote's have keyed on that and are killing more fawns. JMO! So open up coyote season to be all year long.
As it has been stated before, research has shown that even the most out of whack deer populations have a difficult time getting higher than a 3 or 4 to 1 doe to buck ratio. The wild card, however, is if there is significant (high) fawn mortality and low doe harvest. So, if your statement regarding predation of fawns is true, then you may have a higher doe to buck ratio than 3-4 to 1.
 

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Another thing that I know happens often, is hunters in groups, during gun season, shoot more than one doe on a permit. Add a longer muzzleloader season to that and you end up with less does left for breeding.
 

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in the last 3 days i saw 32 deer, 2 had horns and 1 i dont even think was a legal buck, had approx 3" horns.
 
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