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Discussion Starter #1
I've read from this forum that creep tuning is applicable to twin cams and not to solo cams. What category does Hoyt's cam and 1/2 and Merlin's Omega Hybrid Cam fall under? And will creep tuning give the benefits stated in this forum?

Tech Gurus..... your opinion/s please.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #4
GUYS................ help pls. we need your expert opinion. Did anybody try to creep tune a Hoyt with a cam and 1/2 and/or a Merlin with an Omega cam? What's the result?

Pinwheel 12 ..... you're the Merlin guru. Pls. let us know. Thanks.

A negative reply, tho disappointing, will save us the time of going thru the creep tuning process.
 

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I've never done it with a cam and a half, altho that eccentric does act more like a twin than a hybrid, to what extent I cannot say.

The Omega is a true hybrid-- This means that it offers straight and level nock travel at all drawlengths, therefore creep tuning is unneccessary IMHO-- the performance along with impact points should remain constant once the system is set within the parameters explained in the manual that comes with each bow, and it is tuned correctly. The factory is essentially eliminating the diddling of twin cam systems to find the best "sweet spot", and they have pre-determined where the bow will perform best at each given drawlength when set-up correctly. When combined with the S&LNT at each drawlength this makes for a very forgiving system that is super-easy to tune and tweaks the utmost out of the bow if kept within those parameters. They are very easy to check, all marks are right there in front of you.... I personally have not found any need to mess around with anything on the Omega system after I checked to make sure the bow was were it should be for my given drawlength and tuned correctly...my scores bounced up an average of 10 points per game with much higher 12, 11, and X count since switching to it from conventional twin cams, and that in itself is proof enough for me that is is definately working as designed.

Being a true twin cam fan, I can tell you I am thoroughly impressed with this system compared to other Hybrid offerings and all twins. It has simply taken things to another level IMHO. Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Pinwheel 12......... Thanks for the great input.

Hoyt shooters............. what's your experience and technical opinion?
 

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Merlin Omega Cam

We found that you can creep tune the Omega cam just like a standard two cam. The only differnce is you only have the one bus cable to work with. But we can't say if it really improved the performance.
 

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Aren't the new hybrid cams "really" technically more like a one-cam than a two-cam? The only real difference I see is that the idler has been modified from round to an eccentric to address nock travel issues. I see this as an improvement to the one cam more than anything. Last years split-string/duel track one cams offered by Hoyt was a step in this direction, but retained the round idler. Modify the round idler on a duel track to contain an eccentric and you have the “new” (sorry Darton) generation of cams.

Am I wrong?
 

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I just tested it out today on a couple of brands, and Yes you can use the creep tune procedure to check the sync of your cams. The adjustments are a little weird and I need a little more time to test it out on a few others.

The rules are not as cut and dry as they are with two cams, but it will be just as easy once I get it worked out. Everyones version of the hybrid is slightly different, and they handle the draw length modules a little differently, so I think the rules will vary to some degree depending on the brand. I will post more once I get it worked out.
 

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Well….

If Griv is investing time and energy studying creep tuning and draw length modules on several “other brands” during what is probably a very busy time of year getting the “new” stuff ready to go it leads me to believe that the mystery part in the manufacturers section just might be Martin hybrid system.

Wow .. Could it be!!!?? A modular hybrid shoot thru system??

Of course I could be wrong but heck … the speculation is half the fun
 

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GRIV
did you ever (or anyone else for that matter) discover how to, or is it necesarry to creep tune a hybrid (cam 1/2)
thanks
 

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I will speak for the Omega cam system. Others may speak of their systems because as stated by GRIV they all differ to some extent due to their design.

The Omega hybrid as stated before does not need to be "creep tuned" such as pure twins do for best groups, but do need to be checked/adjusted initially and set to within their specified range as stated by the factory for best performance. They need to be "set" within the parameters given by the factory by spinning the power cable and string to get wheel synchronization and drawlength correct. From that point if one chooses they can "fine tune" the feel and holding of the bow by spinning the control cable in slight increments which will rotate both cams in the same direction and raise or lower your nocking point, and thus change dynamic balance much the same way creep tuning does---only with the hybrid the cams remain in synch instead of going out of time like on standard twins because they are slaved together. With the Omega system the cams stay in synch but the nock travel path is affected slightly when spinning the control cable outside of parameters to accomodate a shooters' individual torque into the shot. This is as close to "creep tuning" as you can get without throwing the system itself out of whack and best performance range. After having setup and tuned many for individuals, I find that most will be pleased with the performance and groupings of this system with settings set well within the factory specs---dynamic balance and limbtip travel thus remain consistent and there are no surprises or "kicks" at the shot, thus accuracy remains consistent as well.

As stated, other manufacturers' designs are different from the Omega, and each will have their own way of addressing this question. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
 

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I don't know anything about a Merlin, however I did learn how to crrep tume my Hoyt. Even though my cams were in the "factory specs" I was able to fine tune it by creep tuning. Thanks to Javi!! He made it easy for me.

Put a peice of tape or something in a horizontal line on your target. Shoot a three arrow group at it, make sure you pull to the wall, don't over pull.

Then shoot at the same tape by pulling hard into the wall, if you shoot low put a twist in your buss cable, if you hit high put a twist in your control cable.


I understand what is what Pinwheel 12 is saying, but I creep tuned mine to get the timing perfect!

If you don't understand what I typed,,,:rolleyes: Get with Javi, he can make it make sense:eek:
 

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LA archer, I think your comment on creep tuning should read as follows:


"Put a peice of tape or something in a horizontal line on your target. Shoot a three arrow group at it, make sure you pull hard into the wall.

Then shoot at the same tape but creep forward about a 1/4" off the wall, if you shoot low put a twist in your buss cable, if you hit high put a twist in your control cable."
 

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gateswes said:
LA archer, I think your comment on creep tuning should read as follows:


"Put a peice of tape or something in a horizontal line on your target. Shoot a three arrow group at it, make sure you pull hard into the wall.

Then shoot at the same tape but creep forward about a 1/4" off the wall, if you shoot low put a twist in your buss cable, if you hit high put a twist in your control cable."
With a two cam bow you would be correct... however the cam and 1/2 system is not a true two cam and therefore the same rules do not apply....
 

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JAVELINA said:
With a two cam bow you would be correct... however the cam and 1/2 system is not a true two cam and therefore the same rules do not apply....
That's right, and I'll take it one step further... They are more like a one cam with a duel track idler than a two-cam. The only differnce from a one-cam is that the string track on the idler has an excentric to match the bottom cam. The cabling and function of the hybred cam system is exactly like a one cam system with the exception of this excentric.
 

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Creep or fine timing the Cam & ½

I rarely have to make any adjustments after I’ve set the timing, but the few times that I have missed a little, this worked for me…. It is a variation on the old stand by Creep tuning methods…

With the tiller set to even (limb bolts bottomed and backed out the same on both limbs to your shooting weight) Set the timing as close as you can by eye.

I like to start with my sight zeroed at 20 yards. Using ½ or ¾ inch masking put a horizontal line on your 20 yard target. Shoot 3 or 4 arrows aiming at the tape, be sure to draw only to the wall do not pull into the cams. Only use your good shots; the bad ones don’t count.

This is where the Cam & ½ differs from the two cam bow in creep tuning. Since there is no real valley you can’t creep into it.

Now shoot 3 or 4 more arrows at the line, while drawing your bow hard into the cams (you’re over rotating the cams just a bit) this is what most people describe as the mushy feeling on the cam & 1/2. Again use only your good shots.

If your bow is in perfect time all your shots will hit the line, and the mushy feeling will be almost unnoticeable. If the shots fired while pulling hard into the cams hit high, apply a ½ twist to the control cable.
If the shots fired while pulling hard into the cams hit low apply a ½ twist to the buss cable.

Repeat until all shots hit the tape….

If you want to tune it even closer; repeat at 30 or 40 yards….
 
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