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Discussion Starter #1
I'm getting a right tear of about 1" that I can't seem to get rid of. I have made absolutely sure that there is no rest contact with my Trophy taker shakey hunter. I've adjusted the rest anywhere from obviously in too far, to out as far as it will go, and all parts in-between, and still I tear right. According to the tuning charts, that indicates a stiff arrow, so I screwed out my 100 gr pts and put in 125's, and had the same problem; didn't seem to change it at all. I've adjusted the length of the cord for the TT, and that didn't change it either. I'm at a loss now. Anyone have any ideas? Also, I don't believe I'm torquing the bow to influence it that way.

Thanks.

PS - shooting a 388 gr. goldtip 22 series through a 2003 black knight pro at 60 lbs, 30" draw.

Rod
 

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possibly weak? Try turning the bow down 5 lbs and shoot it thru the paper with the 100 grain point. See if that gets any results.
Sometimes tears show the opposite of what the tuning charts tell you.

ADam G
 

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paper tuning

never really cared about paper tuning. if you consistently hit where you aim and group good i don't care what the arrow does before it gets there.jmo
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm shooting release, and right hand.

The reason I care is because my broadheads aren't hitting in the same place as my target points. And these are mechanicals. At 30 yards, they are left of my target points by 3" and low a little as well.

Rod
 

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Ok now bear with me and we'll get you straight. First thing, get one of your arrows, with no fletching, just bare shaft and field point... I know I know, but this will work... Now set up your paper tuning equipment. Back off 6 yards and shoot the bare shaft through the paper. now adjust the rest in small moves, and only one direction at a time. For instance get rid of the up and down first. Then the left or right.

Ok, once you get the bullet hole, now shoot a fletched arrow, if you get a different result, you got contact.
I went through this with my TT Shakey Hunter... I would of sworn there was no vane contact... but it was hitting the little lever where you tie the cord. Anybody could of won a 100 bucks off of me that night. Man I powdered, I sprayed hairspray any thing I could think of...

Anyway, after you bare shaft tune... if you get a tear with fletching turn the cock vane a little at a time till the tear goes away.

Now if you just can't tune bare shaft, PM me and I'll walk you through tiller tuning to get it straight....

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ok, tonight I tried a full length bare shaft, and if anything it tears worse to the right. I stripped the fletching off one of my arrows and shot it at 20 yds. and it's at least a foot left of the fletched shafts, and I can't get it closer. I slapped on a nap non-drop away rest, and that didn't help either.

Shot the same arrow out of a razortec set 3 lbs heavier, but it had a 1" shorter draw, and had bullets, so that kinda throws the too stiff arrow theory out the window.

I also tried changing when my fallaway drops, but none of it mattered. I still have a serious kick to the right.

One more thing I tried was an acc 3-60, and had the same issues. It was cut to about the same length.

I did put new WC cables on last week, and they are timed and synched right up. Could the problem possibly be that I don't have the cam lean set right? It falls right in the track, so I assume that it's correct.

Any more ideas? Getting desperate as hunting season will soon be here, and I have a big trip planned in less than a month.

Rod
 

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right tear

I had the same problem, and found out that I was torqueing the bow some. as soon as I stopped doing this, I had bullet holes! check out your shooting form again and see if this helps. just my .02 worth. good luck.

bowjer
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm definetly not torquing the bow. I've never had an issue with that on any bow, and I've tripled checked now.
 

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I believe it is torque related. Some bows have more PRE torque than others. Cable guards add such torque. Grip design and the size and makeup of your hand can naturally apply excess torque.

2 years ago I purchased a new Q2XL. I could not clean up a 2" tear to the left. Arrow flight was poor, but the bow was very accurate with field pionts. I to bought the bow to hunt with and broadhead flight was unexceptable!

I to went thru every tuning process every documented and some. I then went to a couple different Mathews dealers and had them shoot the bow. They could all shoot perfect tears thru paper, so It had to be me. I have shot compound bows for over 20 years and never had a problem with this.

My Solution:
1. I was shooting the bow at 28" draw at 70# with 2314 xx78s. By changing arrow size to a 2114, an extremly week spined arrow it all but went away and broadhead flight was good. I shoot a fix blade head. But being a bowhunter I was not happy with that size arrow so I kept changing things.

2. I put a bent cable guard on the bow allowing me to rotate the cables in towards the arrow, giving me just enough clearance for the flechtings. This reduced the tear by half with the 2314s.

3. I took the stock grip and went to work on it with a belt sander. Removing most of the thumb side of the grip. This reduced the tear by another half inch.

4. This year I purchased a new Cougar III with fury X by Martin. All my problems went away! Perfect arrow fight, its very accurate, broadheads fly like a dream and it is shooting faster with a 75 grain heavery arrow!

5. If you can not clean up the tear with conventional tunning methods I would get a different bow. You lose all your tunabilty?? It was hard for me to put the Q2xl in the closet because of all the work I put into it and the 2 Elk, 2 P&Y whitetails, a couple of does, a 6 foot blackbear, a spring turkey and a 160# Mountion Lion.

Good luck!!
 

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HotLZ,

My feeling is, the answer to your problem is pretty simple: Most likely, you are shooting too long of a draw-lenth. Try shortening it by 1/2" as a starting-point and see what's happening.

As a quick test to check for correct draw-length: Stand in front of a mirror and draw back your bow and anchor in the way you are used to. Then check in the mirror where the angle of the string is: It should be located somewhere near the corner of your mouth. Of course, this is just an estimation - that's strongly influenced by the type opf release you are shooting etc.

I bet you'll see the right-tear disapper once you achieved an optimum draw-lenth, but don't forget to adjust the draw-lenth in such a way that it's still convenient.

And by the way: I once had exactly the same problem you described, and shortening the draw-lenth really cured the problem!
 

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Here's a pretty good way to troubleshoot your drawlength:

" _________Draw length troubleshooting:__________
A) If your draw length is too long your sight should float and never really stop. On too long of a draw length your misses will not be as far from the center but they will tend to be one side to the other without any consistency.

B) If your draw length is too short your sight
may momentarily stop but when it moves it is herky/jerky. On a too short draw length your misses will tend to be further from the center.

C) If your draw length is correct (in theory) your sight will stop momentarily and the movement will be slower and reduced."

Hope this helps. Be safe.
Shoot Straight
Derbytown :D
 

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HotLZ.......Did you try letting someone else shoot the bow to see what kind of tear they get? I have done that to show people there is not a problem with the equiptment.RR
 

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I believe it is torque related. Some bows have more PRE torque than others. Cable guards add such torque. Grip design and the size and makeup of your hand can naturally apply excess torque.
I agree, in most cases these sorts of tuning problems can be traced to grip torque caused by cable guards, especially on shorter bows where the cables have to be moved away for sighting and fletching clearance, but there is a great deal more load on them due to the shorter axle to axle measurement.
 

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Hotlz, not sure what type of release you're using or if
you're attaching the release directly to the string.. If u
are, this can sometimes torque the string and cause
erratic arrow flight..try a string loop if you're not already
and see if this helps..If you're already using one, other
than the grip torquing the bow, I don't know what
else to try..
some bows just don't like certain arrow sizes no matter
what we do to tune them.. Have you tried other size
arrows to see if you're having the same problem?
 

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Wow, there IS someone else in my boat.

I was beggining to think I was all alone here;). Go ahead and drop anchor and we'll see if we can figure out which way we need to go to land this vessel:) .

I don't think it is torque related (hand torque anyway) and I get a feeling you know what you are doing. I'd bet if you let other archers shoot it they will get the same or similar tear.

Here is my story. I've been shooting a Pro40Dually this 3D season. 60#/27.5-28" draw and it is very sexy by the way:eek:, for a compound bow anyway:rolleyes: .....

Out of the box and setup with a basic 3D rover rest (using the chrome launcher that comes with it) string loop, peep sight, bla bla bla....
......5 shots and 3 or 4 small adjustments and blam; perfect holes through paper just past the end of my 37" Beiter. We tried several different test arrows, everything from ACC's, CXL's, Arrow Dynamics, to Gold Tips. Everything went trough great. It was scary actually.... I didn't expect it to accept everything I ran through it but it did. The bow shot great and I felt like it was more accurate than I could hold out to well past any "legal" 3D target distance.

I had fine pencil lines on the cams to help keep track of string and cable settling. It took very little twist two different times to make up the small amount of settling I got from what have been a really nice factory string. I also creep tuned (which worked wonderfully) and then after studying the owners manual, played with wheel lean until the cable stops on the modules met the cables perfectly centered (like you mentioned). Did you adjust yours to hit center or were they origionally that way?

Some time later I started seeing a fishtail in arrow flight, which isn't good for me because I don't have a good eye for that especially given a really fast arrow. My pals that claim to see this well were in fact saying the same. The same guys were telling me "all they were seeing was the nock in a perfect line to the target previously. Shooting through paper revealed a 1-1 1/4" tail right tear (right handed), the same as you have. The Bowtech dealer (a very acomplished shooter and tech) would shoot the same tear as I so I new it wasn't just me. If we impied some significant torque (front of the bow to the left) it would straighten the tear out. So I know exactly how you feel, I battled with it as well. Same as you did I went to softer spine, then really weak.... no change except some times bad to worse. I wasn't getting less than an inch no matter what I tried; center shot, nock point, really stiff arrow, etc.

Try this if you trust me ;): put an arrow shaft the diameter of a Goldtip through the limb fork between the limb and the cam (on the cable guard side) and hold it flat against the cam, in front of the module and if I'm remembering right the arrow shaft will probably be to the out side edge of the cable from that cam (if I'm correct). Twisting the yolk on the cable guard side (maybe 5 to 8 turns) will bring that arrow shaft back inside of the cable. The outer edge of the shaft will be to the inside of the cable around 5 or 6 inches before the cable guard. I don't really have exact measurements because I was going a little at a time and kindof lost track. This is what finally helped mine and your results might vary with the BK but I'm pretty sure the cam system is the same. I got my tears down to 1/4" or less this way and although I haven't had a chance to get out and shoot and get supertuned again, I AM confident that I have found the answer. Although I'm not all wrapped up in it as a be all end all, paper has never lied to me when it comes to "problemed arrow flight".

I really hope this helps you and let me know if I can further assist you. Tell me what you find so we can compare notes. If I'm wrong, pretend I didn't even mention this....:rolleyes:

-Chief:D
 

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No problem.

It is strange that I haven't seen this come up before, if in fact this is the case. I never even questioned the Bowtech manual. I mean it's right there in black and white:rolleyes:. I'm still not saying they have it wrong but, from my expierience something isn't quite right.

justshoot- whatacoincedence!! I went to the shop on my lunch and they were "closed to catchup". They have been open 5 months and Bowtech, Hoyt, Granite Safes, and thier firearm sales are really taking off. Lucky I'm a "VIP":cool: (ha), he let me in anyway. The only dually he has is a Patriot. I took some measurements for us so I had more concrete info, not just numbers I thought I could remember. With an arrow shaft positioned as I described above, measured from the edge of the limb facing the cable guard I've got:
Top- 14" from limb 1/4" inside the cable (from cable to edge of shaft.)
Bottom- 19" from limb 1/8" inside the cable (from cable to edge of shaft.)
This is an almost new bow that has been taken home then brought back by the customer cuz he couldn't shoot it or something. Reguardless, I'm fairly certain it hasn't been monkied with yet.
I'd be interested to know what the measurements are on others duallys and how they tune at that amount of lean. Anyone????

-Chief
 
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