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Discussion Starter #1
My friend just bought a Bowtech Carbon Knight as a backup bow and it shoots fine through paper with a $40 Whisker Biscuit rest. We put the Bowtech QAD Ultrarest Pro dropaway on it and can't get the left tear out of it. I moved it as far left as it will go and got it close but can't quite get it. I tried different spined arrows, too. On his Insanity, the rest had to be almost touching the riser to get a bullethole with it but we were able to fix that by adjusting the cam lean. The Carbon Knight doesn't have split yolks so there is no way to adjust it. He loves the bow but is considering getting rid of it if it won't tune with any other rest than a Biscuit. Anyone else put a dropaway on a carbon knight?
 

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You moved the rest the wrong way...
 

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Rest moved the wrong way?
 

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Socket Man
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I am going to send you both of my tuning methods, one is my old simple one and the other one is my tournament bow one. I am telling you that poor form is almost always the biggest reason why guys can't get a bow to tune, second is tying in a d-loop and then trying to do everything with the rest and third is fletching contact. Get yourself a knife and strip off the fletching of one arrow so you have a bare shaft to shoot through the paper right along with the fletched one.

Pay close attention to the part where I talk about the string coming straight off the cam and not being crooked, this is very important and will make tuning much easier.

good luck and if you have any questions just pm me.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Oops-I got it backwards. The the tear is Tail-right (it's the point thats hitting left). I tried moving the rest all the way right and left the only thing that helped is left. I can't find any contact issues and the timing is good. I am stumped on this one.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have pretty solid form (no bow torque, etc.). The cam lean can't be adjusted because there is no split yoke to add or subtract twists. This is the first higher end bow I have ever had trouble getting a bullethole with.
 

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Socket Man
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I sent you my articles and hopefully you get some use out of them. Moving the d-loop up and down the string can really affect the left and right tears along with the vertical tears that a bow has, most guys tie in the d-loop and then suffer getting their bow tuned because of the poor placement. Finding the sweetspot for the d-loop is very important and highly overlooked.
 

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You can also adjust cam lean by shimming the cam to the right or left. You can get a shim kit from Apple Archery and move the cam around to find the sweet spot just like adjusting yokes although its much more time consuming - thats how you have to do it if the following things are checked off:

Nock height is correct
Draw length is correct
Cam timing is correct
Arrow spine is correct

If these are all set then the next step is shimming the cams. Just like adjusting yokes. They will cause cam lean and thats a tuning adjustment.
 

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If it tunes with the biscuit and not with the QAD it has to be in the setup of the QAD. It's the only thing that has changed. If moving the rest Does not effect the tear Im guessing vane contact is the problem. Try a bare shaft and see if the tear changes.
 

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Socket Man
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You have got to get it in your head that you are just overlooking something and that the bow is not the problem, I have had at least 20 guys just like you frustrated claiming that they have tried everything and the bow is just horrible. They hand me the bow and I shoot a bullet hole through the paper without adjusting anything, they look at me and simply don't understand and I do it a few more times just to show them it isn't a fluke. For the guys that I shoot their bow and get a poor tear I do the methods in my tuning articles and 15 to 20 minutes later they have a tuned bow.

Again you have to look outside the box because the things you are doing aren't working and it isn't the bow.
 

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You have got to get it in your head that you are just overlooking something and that the bow is not the problem, I have had at least 20 guys just like you frustrated claiming that they have tried everything and the bow is just horrible. They hand me the bow and I shoot a bullet hole through the paper without adjusting anything, they look at me and simply don't understand and I do it a few more times just to show them it isn't a fluke. For the guys that I shoot their bow and get a poor tear I do the methods in my tuning articles and 15 to 20 minutes later they have a tuned bow.

Again you have to look outside the box because the things you are doing aren't working and it isn't the bow.
YES!! it could be something as simple as GRIP. loosen your grip, point your thumb at the target and see if it changes.
 

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You can also adjust cam lean by shimming the cam to the right or left. You can get a shim kit from Apple Archery and move the cam around to find the sweet spot just like adjusting yokes although its much more time consuming - thats how you have to do it if the following things are checked off:

Nock height is correct
Draw length is correct
Cam timing is correct
Arrow spine is correct

If these are all set then the next step is shimming the cams. Just like adjusting yokes. They will cause cam lean and thats a tuning adjustment.
Also make sure the QAD is timed correctly and is not getting any fletching contact.
 

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Which QAD model? Is it the LD Pro model? There's the Hunter, LD, HD, and HDX. If it's the Hunter model, you need to install the TL1 launcher, because it bounces back up and hits the fletching. I'm also seeing fletching contact with the latest batch of HDX models, because the drop-away spring doesn't seem strong enough to drop the launcher all the way, and is also coming in contact with vanes. Use the TL1 launcher with the HDX as well.
 

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Assuming all this is correct:

Nock height is correct
Draw length is correct
Cam timing is correct
Arrow spine is correct
Rest timing is correct with good fletching clearance.
Form is good

It then becomes a shimming job if you want to continue to use this rest.

One thing I got away from on 2track Binary's was a drop away that ties into the down cable. It can make tuning a bit of a pain. Force on the cables can cause issues. I stick with limb driven drop aways for 2 track cam systems. It just takes away the possibility of the drop away cord tied into the down cable affecting the timing and tune.
 

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You really can't time the cams when you've only got one drawstop at the top cam. You need to get another draw stop and place it in the bottom cam, so you can time them at full draw. However, that's not really the issue. You can time the QAD if you set the launcher to come up at the last 1/2" of the draw cycle. There is almost no resistance on the buss cable from the timing cord at this point.
 

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You really can't time the cams when you've only got one drawstop at the top cam. You need to get another draw stop and place it in the bottom cam, so you can time them at full draw. However, that's not really the issue. You can time the QAD if you set the launcher to come up at the last 1/2" of the draw cycle. There is almost no resistance on the buss cable from the timing cord at this point.
Agree on the timing of the rest. Although, I disagree about the cam timing. They will have reference marks to make sure the top and bottom are synched together. Limb stops can be moved and may not be completely accurate for cam synching.
 

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Agree on the timing of the rest. Although, I disagree about the cam timing. They will have reference marks to make sure the top and bottom are synched together. Limb stops can be moved and may not be completely accurate for cam synching.
Timing marks don't mean squat if the cams aren't timed at full draw. Take a look at any of the overdrive binary cam bows and you'll see the cables cross through the cam timing marks in different locations. That's because the cables don't cross in the exact middle of the riser. Therefore, the cable angles in relation to the cam timing marks aren't going to be equal.

You can disagree all you want, but I currently do this for a living.
 
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