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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is actually a continuation of another thread that brought about the question of centershot and bow tuning. For years some of the top archers have stated paper tuning was a waste of time because stepping forward or backwards would produce different results and the magic tune was to shoot in your center shot (moving your rest left or right to align your shots at different yardages). Now I'm hearing that instead of making left and right adjustments to my arrow rest to get my arrows centered I should just move my sight to get my point of impact where it needs to be providing I am producing good groups after paper tuning for a perfect tear. I was always under the impression that by using the walk back method to find the centershot was the preferred and recommended method for tuning your setup. I would appreciate if some of you top shooters on this site would join in and give your advise and experience. :confused: :confused:
 

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groups

If you are grouping and you hit further right as you move back, that would be a sight problem. The magic work is grouping. You wont be able to tell by shooting one arrow at each distance. If you can shoot a 2" group at 25, 3" group at 40 and a 4" to 5" group at 70 and lets say your arrows are in the spot a 25,but you start to shoot out to the right as you move back. That would mean you more than likely have a sight adjustment problem. Now if you are shooting groups spread apart on a horizonal level at all yardages that would indicate a center shot adjustment or a arrow spine problem. Just remember one arrow won't tell you much as to how your center shot is set. Hope this helps.
 

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Crawpytime1 - I disagree. If it were a sight alignment issue, the arrows would impact at the same distance (left or right) at each distance. If the distance is greater at each yardge it's a center shot problem; the arrows are coming out in one direction and are continuing in that same direction, further and further down range. If you move your sight to correct for the point of impact at lets say 40 yards......your 25 yard group is going to move in the opposite direciion of where it was. If you have a walkback group that ressembles a pattern like this: " / " you need to move your rest to the right, if it looks like this: " \ ", you need to move your rest to the left. Once you can walk back from 50 yards, and get a " l " pattern, your centershot is adjusted, now you can move your sight left or right to achieve the desired point of impact. If you have a group that ressembles a " C " shaped pattern it is a weak/stiff spine indication, depending on weather or not you are right or left handed and if it is a reverse "C" shape or an actual "C" shape pattern.
I put no faith in paper tuning. I will always walk-back to tune the centershot.
 

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mike is right on. paper tuning is a waste of time. if you start at say 6ft. and get a perfect tear and move back to 12 ft. and have to make an adjustment you just negated your first tear. i'm not interested in how straight the arrow flies. i want it to go where it's suppose to. group tune and forget the paper.
 

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If I'm able to shoot a 1.5" at 20 yrds and keep it in the dot and then shoot a 3" group at 50 yrds just out to the right I would first check my level. That usually means my level is not plum with my sight bar. I have found the best way to tune for center shot is to make sure you level is adjusted properly and then shoot at a 1" vertical tape at 40yrds. If you can keep 4to 5 arrows on the tape your center shot is set. It probably wouldn't hurt to shoot it also at 25 to make sure you get the same results. If I shoot a group at 40 yrds that looked like / I would start by adjusting my nocking point. If I shot a group that looked like ---- I would adjust my center shot.
 

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The one thing I haven't seen mentioned was that when you do
the walk back test, you stay with one pin. The hits will get lower on the target as you go back but they should be staight up and down. Not going up and down on an angle. After the walk back is done and you've made adj. to your rest so you get a staight line up and down, try using your other pins to keep the same point of impact as you walk back. Then if your shots are going to one side or the other, it is your sight that is not level with the bow.

I'm not an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn express.
 

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you can fine tune your centershot and do fine with your windage each time as like was said before you shoot one pin at different distances and your left anf right should stay the same and not create any problems for you. i don;t have a center shot tool so i line my arrow with the center of my limb pocket bolts and shoot at 10 yards and then walk back to 20 then 30 and then 40 as that is my limit for deer in my area of the woods. also another that may do a little opening of your groups is your tiller tune if your shotoing a single cam or twin cam i have noticed that when my tiller is off the arrows will open a bit. just work nd tinker until you feel you have reached where you r happiest and stay with it and don;t change unless there is a string change or even a change of weight drawn
rob k
 

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Still a Centershot Issue

If it's a sight bubble issue, it still wont make any difference. The only time that will come into play and change the point of impact either left or right is if you're shooting uphill or downhill. If you're holding your bow the same way each time the arrow is going to come out the same way each time. Now, if your bubble is seriously canted then yes it may have a little influence on left and rights, but not much. It's an uphill/downhill thing.
 

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I'll second what deerdad said . If you are useing a slideing sight keep it in one position . If you dont then the oldpro effect make take over . If you dont know who oldpro is I sugest you look at a picture of his setup and shooting form .
 

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Remember one thing folks. you don't have to be shooting on a hill to have a bubble problem (3 axis). In Atlantic city indoors at 60 m
your arm is elevated from the horizontal. that is an up hill shot
Nuff said.
Mike
 

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The tip about same pin moving out works perfect, used it twice now to center perfect.......

Ok, how does this affect paper tuning? If you get bullet holes at 3-11 yards, then find your center is off 1/32-1/16, will this screw your earlier tuning efforts?

thanks, CWG
 

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I agree firmly with Mike. Maybe I'm old school, but when I get my broadheads and points to hit in the same place out to 50 yards then I consider my bow tuned. Paper tuning can turn into a frustrating experience.
 

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50 yards, I'm impressed. My window is 40 and thats IF its worth the risk and 90% of factors in my favor.
 

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IMO paper tuning can be enlighting if viewed in the correct manner.

First like many tuning methods it is not the final answer, but it is one of the accepted starting points. Much as I don't need a laser to set my nock point and center shot, one does not need to paper tune to shoot in their bow.

All of the methods discussed so far in this thread are good methods and work to one extent or another, the determining factor being the level of "tuning" the shooter is willing to accecpt.
 

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OK I will be the one to say I like to paper tune. I take hunting shots at very close ranges and I want my arrow coming out of my bow straight right from the shot for max penetration. A 5 yard shot is not uncommon. I start at 6 feet and paper tune back to 11 yards in my basement and then go outside and see how bh's and ft's impact(getting ahead of myself). After I get a good paper tear with a fletched arrow in my basement, I then use a bare shaft arrow to paper test further and do that until I get a perfect bullet hole. I then switch and use a (fletched) BH tipped arrow and check the tear(s) and usually they are perfect also and then outside I go. I shoot out to 30 yards in my yard and usually after I have done the above, the ft's and bh's hit right together and obviously good groups. Been doing it for many years with good results and I enjoy it ! ;)

My thoughts are this, as long as we are doing some kind of tuning (testing) trying to get the best we can from our rigs, you cant really go wrong. I dont knock anyone doing it and dont say you should be doing it my way! More people should be tuning!!!! Some guys bring their rigs over and it is pathetic how they are so out of tune but yet they hunt with them. But one of our local dealers snowballs people too, so I wont get on that subject now cuz it pees me off too much. :eek:
 

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Paper tuning is a complete waste of time....for anyone who is not shooting a correctly spined arrow for their bow. (which is a bunch of people) In this instance the walk back/group tuning method will probably give the best results since there is no other method of tuning that will provide adequate results with inadequate arrows.

If your arrows are properly spined for your set-up then no method will beat starting with a good paper tune, BTW a good paper tune means bullet holes from 3' to 10 yards and every point in between, not just one distance. If you can't get to this point with your set-up then find out what's wrong with your set-up or stop wasting time and go with the walk back or group tuning method of bow tuning since there is no way you'll get perfect results with an imperfect set-up.

Once you get bullet holes through paper at all distances then bare shaft tune at 20 yards or more to make those last few mircoscopic adjustments.

Finally if you prefer for the arrow to leave slightly tail high then drop your rest 1/64th of an inch and you will have a bow that will group as good as it's possible to achieve. The rest is up to you.

As a side note: Many top archers are dropping the old 1/4" tail high (left or right depending on which hand you shoot with) method of paper tuning since it was brought into play by archers shooting rests with side support and fingers. For that it made sense and still does. However if you are shooting a release and a shoot through rest or a drop away rest going to this tear will not help group size one bit unless you choose to BELIEVE it helps. After all archery is a mental game.

All this of course applies to release shooters who are more interested in the physics side of bow tuning rather than smoke and mirrors. By all means use whatever method makes ya happy! :)
 

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Smoke.....:p

Don't be giving away all the secrets.... some people just like limp spine....

BTW Physics rule our everyday lives.... why not our Archery....:D
 

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Rather than edit my post which sounds harsher than I intended let me add that paper tuning/bareshaft tuning in no way is the only way to get a bow to shoot great. But it's the only method that takes aiming errors (or luck) out of the equation. Heck you can have a 6" tear and shoot a fixed distance with precision accuracy but it will not be MORE accurate than a good paper/bareshaft tuned bow with the right arrow on it.
 
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