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Discussion Starter #1
Just curious is it even possible to compete at the elite level with a short draw length say like 26.5"
 

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WI -

I dunno, but I have a young lady with a 26" draw on a 28# bow doing fairly well at 70M.
No, you're not going to get the trajectory that a guy with a 31"+ DL will get, but then, you might not need it.

Viper1 out.
 

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Genesis 21:20
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I think Michelle Gilbert has proven it can be done. And I don't think she even draws 26.5" either.
 

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I think Michelle Gilbert has proven it can be done. And I don't think she even draws 26.5" either.
We need to see John Magera vs Michelle Gilbert in a shoot-off at 70 meters. Long draw, heavy arrow vs short draw, lighter arrow. I don't think that either extreme of draw length has a clear advantage.

A compensating advantage of a short draw length over a longer draw length is that the arrows can be much lighter which also typically means a slightly smaller arrow diameter. Smaller arrow diameter and shorter length means less drag, which compensates partly for the lower energy associated with a shorter draw. (Lower drag isn't very important for the effect on range and sight angle -- lower drag means less wind drift which is important in variable winds.)
 

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most of the korean ladies have a 26-27 inch draw. They seem to do very well.

Chris
 

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Short version, yes.

Slightly longer version - arrow and vane technology allows archers to reach distances unheard of in prior years.
 

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Genesis 21:20
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We need to see John Magera vs Michelle Gilbert in a shoot-off at 70 meters.
No, we don't. I don't think my ego could handle it. LOL...

Long draw, heavy arrow vs short draw, lighter arrow. I don't think that either extreme of draw length has a clear advantage.
Actually, it does. Which is why I would even have a chance to beat Michelle anyway.

Ask Guy Krueger about competing against guys with 31+" draw lengths in the wind at 70 meters. ;)

I only have to aim of half as far as most of the women at 70 meters.

It's a big advantage. Otherwise, I would not have been nearly as competitive as I was.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
John what kind of speeds were you/are you seeing with a big DL?
another question .. why do we have such huge brace heights? I am very new to this single string bow but it feels like i don't need a brace that darn long with my short DL. Is there any limb designs that have a more forward position to them.
 

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Maybe not so much limbs (maybe Border with a much sharper curve in the limbs) but the Hoyt IonX and HPX have a shorter than "standard" brace height. Much like a target compound with a longer brace height, it produces a more forgiving bow. Shorter brace height may give you a longer power stroke but your form needs to be a little more consistent to maintain the better shots.
 

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Jessica Tomasi , former World Field Champion and Nbr 2 ranked in Italy, could say that 24" are enough ....
 

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Genesis 21:20
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John what kind of speeds were you/are you seeing with a big DL?
another question .. why do we have such huge brace heights? I am very new to this single string bow but it feels like i don't need a brace that darn long with my short DL. Is there any limb designs that have a more forward position to them.
When I was shooting around 49# I would get 207 fps with a 400 grain arrow. At the 2012 trials, I was shooting 47# and getting about 204 with a 385 grain arrow. Brace ht. was over 9"

The manufacturers have been responding to those with shorter draw lengths by producing risers with less deflex, and matching longer risers with shorter limbs than we used to do. It will help some folks with shorter draws. They will have lower brace ht's as a result and a longer powerstroke, but that longer stroke will be made up on the light end, while those of us with longer draws get to add it on the heavy end.

Short draw archers typically will have faster arrows than mine becuase they are not only shooting a shorter arrow, but a lighter one too. So it's not unusual for a man with a 27" draw, for example, to be getting 210-215 fps., but their arrow will be 75% the weight of mine.

Where the advantage lies for me is in drift. I will have less drift because my arrows will retain much more downrange energy. I've not ever tested this, but they very well may be faster at the target than a 215 fps. arrow that weighs 300 grains.

I know at the 2004 trials, Jim Coombe commented that I had the flattest shooting arrow on the entire field. Not sure if that's true, but I respect his observations. With the less deflexed geometry and higher draw weights the guys are shooting these days, I know without a doubt that's not the case any longer.

John
 

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Maybe not so much limbs (maybe Border with a much sharper curve in the limbs) but the Hoyt IonX and HPX have a shorter than "standard" brace height. Much like a target compound with a longer brace height, it produces a more forgiving bow. Shorter brace height may give you a longer power stroke but your form needs to be a little more consistent to maintain the better shots.
Is not the carry over from compound to recurve the same with regard to BH? That being a shooter with a shorter DL can shoot a bow with less BH and expect the same level of forgiveness as an archer with a longer DL shooting a bow with a longer BH?
 

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Is not the carry over from compound to recurve the same with regard to BH? That being a shooter with a shorter DL can shoot a bow with less BH and expect the same level of forgiveness as an archer with a longer DL shooting a bow with a longer BH?
In theory, yes. I know that in the compound world, kids are able to shoot bows with a brace as low as 5.5" and get very good performance out of it.
 

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I only have to aim of half as far as most of the women at 70 meters.
John,

But isn't this an advantage because of your draw weight and not your draw length?

Example:

OTF Weight: 50
Draw Length: 31
Arrow Weight: 400 (rough guess)

vs

OTF Weight: 50
Draw Length: 25
Arrow Weight: 280 (rough guess)


wouldn't the speed be pretty pretty close between them??
 

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Genesis 21:20
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It's the combination of both. Think of it as "area under the curve" if you map a draw-force curve. There's a lot more area under my DFC than an archer with a shorter draw length, and I get to add my area at the heavy end.

This power at the bow, combined with the heavier arrow, produces more downrange energy and less drift.

Which arrow would you rather be hit with? The wind feesl the same way. ;)

All this means is that I can get away with being a little less skilled on a windy day at 70 meters than an archer with a shorter draw. Or conversely, they have to be that much better to beat me.

Really makes you appreciate what the Korean women can do at 70M on a windy day.
 

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Hope this isn't too far off topic, but I'm considering the purchase of an Ion and would like to know what the advantages / disadvantages would be in going with a longer riser. What is the reasoning behind someone going with the 27" riser versus the 25" ? I'm 5'10" with a DL of 26". The limbs will more than likely be in the 40# range. Thanks
 

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Just curious, what is Michelle's draw weight?
 
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