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Hi folks,

I'm interested in purchasing a recurve bow to compete in local traditional leagues and tournaments. I really like Hoyt bows, but don't know where to start. There are so many options!

Right now I shoot a 35# @ 28" root pendulus from the 60s. It's fine, but I need something with a little more meat to step up against the big boys.

Any clues where I should start? Any recommendations?

Thanks in advance!
 

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Muzzy Tech
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Find a Hoyt Excell riser, get ya some good ILF limbs for it and you will be on to a great start. You can set the riser up to shoot elevated or off the shelf and with a good set of limbs you can really get some performance out of it at a reasonable price.
 

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Buy something if it makes you happy, but really, what you have will do just fine until you're neck and neck, unless you know specifically what you'd like different, and why. Some of the best shooters I know shoot relatively low tech hunting style equipment, and clean up with it. that's not to say that a nice target-oriented rig wouldn't be nice, and a good long term investment, just that it's not a necessity, and the last component in getting truly competitive. If you're looking to go head to head with Allen eagle ton or Ben rogers, Matt potter, Dave, Gary, DeWayne, ken, etc, it may make that final few point difference, but you've got to get near there first ;)

Consistent form, followed by a well-tuned setup, will trump top-shelf equipment EVERY time.

that said I hope you enjoy whatever you get . There is value in the sheer love of equipment. I've determined thaI am going to follow through on a new bow midyear, even if it means that I need to dump a telephoto zoom to do it. The idea of a border covert hunter with hex7 limbs, custom grip, insert patterns, and sight window, has me all twitterpated . Will it score me more points? Nowhere near the difference of seriously practicing before a tournament... but the enjoyment is more than points, right? Rationalize rationalize.... :)
 

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Buy something if it makes you happy, but really, what you have will do just fine until you're neck and neck, unless you know specifically what you'd like different, and why. Some of the best shooters I know shoot relatively low tech hunting style equipment, and clean up with it. that's not to say that a nice target-oriented rig wouldn't be nice, and a good long term investment, just that it's not a necessity, and the last component in getting truly competitive. If you're looking to go head to head with Allen eagle ton or Ben rogers, Matt potter, Dave, Gary, DeWayne, ken, etc, it may make that final few point difference, but you've got to get near there first ;)

Consistent form, followed by a well-tuned setup, will trump top-shelf equipment EVERY time.

that said I hope you enjoy whatever you get . There is value in the sheer love of equipment. I've determined thaI am going to follow through on a new bow midyear, even if it means that I need to dump a telephoto zoom to do it. The idea of a border covert hunter with hex7 limbs, custom grip, insert patterns, and sight window, has me all twitterpated . Will it score me more points? Nowhere near the difference of seriously practicing before a tournament... but the enjoyment is more than points, right? Rationalize rationalize.... :)
I like how you put form first then tuning. Nobody told me and I am just finding out.
DD
 

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Kind of depends on how much you want to spend on a setup. Top of the line would be a dedicated barebow riser like a Spigarelli BB 25 or Club 650 or a Sky TR-7 with some high end ILF limbs. These bows are not going to look very Trad, but fit by definition and would be cutting edge. If you want a wood target bow, then your options are limited to vintage bows like Bear Tamerlanes or Wing Presentations - these bows are typically one piece rigs around 70" long and shoot like a dream. Big old heavy wood risers look and work beautiful, but they are a serious hastle to carry around. Maybe if you could narrow down what your looking for along with a budget we could come up with some better ideas. Fun stuff.

By more 'meat' are you talking draw weight or physical bow weight?
 

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esper -

An ILF rig will be your best bet, as it will be the most customizable, and possibly the best performing.
How much that will matter at "TRAD" distances is debatable, typically any bow you are comfortable shooting and understand it's trajectories will be more than enough.
"BARE BOW" is a different world, where most of the bows are Olympic rigs, just barely passing the regs for the class.

DD -

With stickbows form has to be first for a couple of reasons.
First, at beginning or even most "trad" distances, the difference between a perfect tune and one that's close just won't be noticeable.
Even a little fletch can hind a multitude of sins.
Second, without consistent form, tuning may be difficult if not impossible.
Consider a shooter with an inconsistent release, back tension, bow or string hand position trying to bare shaft. Each of those flubs will send the arrow off it's mark in a different direction and with a different orientation (kickout).
That's why I don't even discuss tuning with my students until their form has solidified.
Yeah, it's a little different from the compound / release world.

Viper1 out.
 

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Thanks 1.
The thing about doing it backwards is that as your form gets better or should I say more stable for little weight recurve, your tune changes. At first, I did get a good bare shaft tune at 20 yards, was able to set the nock height within a few shots and trimmed the nock end 1/4" at a time to straighten it out from pointing left (weak). However, I do see now the difference of a poorly tuned setup at the longer yardage, which could still be form issues. But, now I can also see the difference of a well aimed but poorly executed shot vs well aimed and executed shot.
DD
 

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First of all, find out what the tournament regulations are. Some have a minimum draw weight, point weight, etc. Some don't allow elevated rests. It would stink to buy new equipment just to find out you couldn't compete with it.

Any half-competent coach will tell you that form comes first, accuracy will follow. An excellent video is "Masters of the Barebow, Volume III". The two main players are both proven archers.

Anyone who tells you perfect tuning doesn't matter for 3-D obviously hasn't shot much (if any) 3-D. I've shot courses from TX to PA, FL to OH. Most shots are inside 30 yds, but you may have shots that are 60+ (the old Howard Hill had a shot that was 80 yds or more).

Close doesn't equate to a "gimme"...lots of shots are set up so your arrow flight has to be pretty much perfect to squeeze in beside or between obstacles. Targets can be set at angles so less than perfect flight means you skip off the target rather than sticking it. The most challenging courses I've shot weren't the ones with longest shots. That being said, you can only tune as well as you can shoot.

Other than that, pick the bow that appeals to you. Some like this, some like that, many get caught up with trying to buy accuracy. You are the main variable. A great archer can shoot most any bow accurately. A lousy archer can't shoot any bow well.
 

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The OP didn't specify any sanctioned tournaments--he mentioned "local". For a great many of us, the only local tournaments aren't sanctioned by IBO, or ASA, etc.
Yep, and these tend to be even less restrictive than sanctioned events, which are not that restrictive to begin with. I think the OP would be well served with some of the suggestions, and the equipment regs of a few shoots can be just what they are when they are. One can't plan ahead for all contingencies, so just go with the majority and all's well in the end. Besides, I can't fathom that the OP will run into a League that requires a given point weight and draw weight minimum - that would be preposterous.
 

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Yep, and these tend to be even less restrictive than sanctioned events,...
Not in my experience. Here is a partial list of restrictions I've seen at various tournaments.

Longbows have to fit a jig to be shot in the longbow class. Longbow class must shoot wood. Men must shoot 125 grain or heavier points, women must shoot 100 grain or heavier points. Split only--no 3-under. Most don't have a class for string walking, sights, or face walking. Some have a minimum draw weight. Most won't allow multi-colored serving, marks on the bow (to be used as a sight), or elevated rests. The list could go on, depending on who is hosting the tournament.

Why is this so contrversial? It's simple and sound advice that costs nothing and is based on fact. It's a simple thing to check the regs, doesn't cost a thing, and could save some aggravation.

So, explain why this simple recommendation that could be very useful and costs nothing is so bad?
 

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Why is this so contrversial? It's simple and sound advice that costs nothing and is based on fact. It's a simple thing to check the regs, doesn't cost a thing, and could save some aggravation.

So, explain why this simple recommendation that could be very useful and costs nothing is so bad?
Because the OP specifically stated he's looking at a better recurve, not longbow. Also, doubtful he's going from 35# to Heavy Hunter class for IBO Trad, which even if he was, it's also just one class, one organization and not universal enough to worry about - it's almost defunct from what I see anyway. Not controversial, just not relevant for the discussion to make his decision on - just needlessly complicates things for him. Maybe if you had specified that IF he wanted to go IBO Longbow, he would be under that rule.

If there's a point weight and draw weight minimum in any other shoot categories and for recurve, it would be helpful to specify those over one for longbow, I think.
 

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You said that these non-sanctioned shoots were "usually less restrictive". The two (out of a dozen or so) regs I stated that were specific to longbows were simply facts to the contrary of that statement. The IBO "Heavy Hunter" class (discontinued, I think) wasn't mentioned by me. To the contrary, I was talking about non-sanctioned shoots, of which some I have shot in that have a minimum draw weight for men.

The OP didn't mention a "better" recurve. He said:

I'm interested in purchasing a recurve bow to compete in local traditional leagues and tournaments.
It's very much relevant. So, once again...why would anyone think it's anything but a good idea to check the regs of the tournments you plan to shoot in, just to be sure you spend the time and money purchasing and setting up gear that you won't be allowed to compete with?
 

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To the contrary, I was talking about non-sanctioned shoots, of which some I have shot in that have a minimum draw weight for men.
I think if we could name one, we would already know the prevalence of those. Which one(s) are they?

Never seen it myself or heard of it other than the IBO HH class.

Same goes for the point weight, which I guess is why "Longbow IBO" is the only reference we have so far.
 

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How "prevalent" are the local tournaments the OP plans to attend?

Anyway, back to the OP...finding out what, if any, equipment restrictions you may have to comply with to compete would be my starting point.

The most common equipmet restrictions I've seen are no elevated rests, no sights, and men have to shoot a point weight of at least 125 grains--which also means no NIBB points (another common restriction I've seen). If you string walk or face walk, that may not be allowed either. I've seen a few folks show up at a tournament--some after traveling a long way--only to find out their bow or set-up wasn't legal for competition.
 

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The mere fact that you have "LOCAL traditional leagues and tournaments" is somewhat surprising, and very interesting to hear. If that's truly the case, then I would go along with LBR. It would be a simple matter to go to one and tell 'em what you want to do, and just ask them what's legal. We have one traditional club around here, and yes, they're rules are very unusual, and don't really follow to a "tee" the various and sundry organizations whose auspices most compete under. The key word here being "LOCAL".
 

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Hi folks,

I'm interested in purchasing a recurve bow to compete in local traditional leagues and tournaments. I really like Hoyt bows, but don't know where to start. There are so many options!

Right now I shoot a 35# @ 28" root pendulus from the 60s. It's fine, but I need something with a little more meat to step up against the big boys.

Any clues where I should start? Any recommendations?

Thanks in advance!
imho?....There are two kinds of trad archers where it comes to "attending events"...the light hearted just happy to be there with role playing tendencies (pretty much like myself) and/or?...the more serious competitive types...and judging by the demeanor of your OP?...you are the latter...looking to step up to the line with the Big Boys...in which case?....I would advise that you don't screw around and just go for the gusto...which means a balls out, ILF Bare Bow Rig (like Grant mentioned above) and the only thing I would add?...is this...

There are no points given for Kinetic Energy...and GPP is GPP (grains per pound)....iow's?...a 30# bow shooting 300gr arrows is going to preform just as well as a 50# bow shooting 500gr arrows...so go light...this way?...you can get a lot of fatigue free practice along with the advantage of confidence....that you can hold that bow on the mark at full draw for as long as you like and execute each and every shot perfectly where physical limitations are never an issue...so go light on the limbs....can you go too light?...yes...you can...I, and some close friends agree that 35#s seems to be the happy medium where you can get fantastic performance yet still retain enough string tension for a good clean release...go lower than that?...and unless you have superb form?...things can start getting a bit spongy on the backend....which doesn't make for a very forgiving rig...release wise....but we all have varying physical limitations...I myself am most comfy with lightweight target bows in the 26#-32# weight range...but they demand I be very conscious of achieving a good clean release....A.T. Member Unk Bond bought my last target bow...a PSE Zone riser with 26# Samick Universal wood/glass limbs scaled at 28-30#s (pending two scales)..and it was spitting 260gr arrows across the chrono at 188-190fps...very respectable performance...but was extremely well tuned and sported a Rick Barbee 9 strand rhino string.

But like someone else mentioned?...bow choice and spec's aside?..."Rigs & Gear" (within reason) means very little as compared to the practice, determination and skills of the archer behind the string...so just because you dropped a bundle on some fancy metal risered ILF spaghetti bow?....does in no way, shape or form guarantee that some old man with a wood target rig won't hand you your butt on a silver platter...and that's the beauty of trad...cause there are no accessories...and it's never the bow...cause it's always the Indian behind the string.

That said?...there's a beautiful 70" Hoyt Pro Medalist in the classifieds right now...40#s at 28"s...and flawless....with a case...for $375.

all I got and L8R, Bill. :cool2:
 

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Thanks Joe--obviously you get it, and have actual experience (as I do) with how some "local" clubs can have some odd rules.

I've never had to worry about it much--my set-up has been legal for every tournament I've ever shot in, except when I tried to shoot in the "primitive" class at the TBOF--they not only require wood arrows, but self nocks on them. I remember for a while some tournaments really frowned on carbon arrows. Nowadays some have a "modern longbow" class that allows take-down longbows and/or carbon or aluminum arrows. Practically all the ones I shoot in don't allow elevated rests for any bow, except the rare IBO event I travel to.

Some folks fuss. The way I look at it, if I'm not the one out there working my butt off setting it up, then I shouldn't complain. I do work my butt off helping set up and run two big tournaments every year. I know how much time, work, and dedication it takes.
 

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I just looked in the IBO rules and couldn't find anything about 125 grain points for the longbow class. Could someone clarify this?
 

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I just looked in the IBO rules and couldn't find anything about 125 grain points for the longbow class. Could someone clarify this?
They apparently dropped it quite a few years ago, but I guess it still pays to check and know the rules before you go :) The rule previously posted seems gone now, but I assume it was old rules.
 

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esper -

If you're still reading this, you have some good advice on equipment types.
The only catch would the rules at the events you plan on shooting.
Since I'll assume your first event won't be at a national level, go to your local range(s) and see what rules they are using.
Unfortunately, they run the gamut from "by the book" based on the org they are associated with, to pretty loose, depending on the nature of the hosting club and the number of people attending.

Your first foray into competition should really be a "get acquainted" session.
In that case, if you don't pass tech, you can usually shoot in the next higher class or shoot without handing in a score.

Viper1 out.
 
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