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Discussion Starter #1
The video below is my attempt to capture my form. I'm very much an amateur at archery. I openly asked the guy at the pro shop where I bought my Vertix to critique me and he said "Your form looks pretty good to me." I shot a 40yd group a few minutes ago, 3 arrows, 2 shafts touching and the third touching vanes (1/4" gap between the shafts).

I see my bow elbow slightly bent and that's what's bugging me, but when I try to straighten it, everything else gets all out of whack. I can't see through my peep, it's harder to hold steady, etc

I'd appreciate any feedback, thanks!

 

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with groups like that I would not change a thing unless you have pain or find that your shooting falls apart on hills .
Nice job
 

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(aka lug nut)
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The video below is my attempt to capture my form. I'm very much an amateur at archery. I openly asked the guy at the pro shop where I bought my Vertix to critique me and he said "Your form looks pretty good to me." I shot a 40yd group a few minutes ago, 3 arrows, 2 shafts touching and the third touching vanes (1/4" gap between the shafts).

I see my bow elbow slightly bent and that's what's bugging me, but when I try to straighten it, everything else gets all out of whack. I can't see through my peep, it's harder to hold steady, etc

I'd appreciate any feedback, thanks!

Shoot one arrow in your quiver, and fire at a 20 yard target for 30 shots in a row. Yes, that means you have to walk to the target after each shot, and pull out the arrow. Pin a sheet (clean sheet) of cardboard to the target. If you are getting arrows touching at 40 yards, and 3rd shot only is 1/4-inch apart...then, shooting one arrow again and again at 20 yards, should be a piece of cake. In fact, you should be able to put all 30 shots in the same hole in the cardboard.

My very best student stopped his test after 21 shots in a row, in the same hole. So, 30 shots should be no trouble for you.



So, none of my students have been able to stuff one arrow 30 times into the same hole. This fella is the only one to make it to 21 shots in a row, in the same hole, with one arrow in the quiver, walking back and forth to the target 21 times. Oh yeah. Would like a photo of your results.
 

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(aka lug nut)
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The video below is my attempt to capture my form. I'm very much an amateur at archery. I openly asked the guy at the pro shop where I bought my Vertix to critique me and he said "Your form looks pretty good to me." I shot a 40yd group a few minutes ago, 3 arrows, 2 shafts touching and the third touching vanes (1/4" gap between the shafts).

I see my bow elbow slightly bent and that's what's bugging me, but when I try to straighten it, everything else gets all out of whack. I can't see through my peep, it's harder to hold steady, etc

I'd appreciate any feedback, thanks!

So, next time you shoot 40 yards, would like to see a photo of the results.
If possible, shoot 3 fletched arrows and one bareshaft at a target only 20 yards away. Bareshaft is when you take a utility knife and completely remove the vane, including removing the base of the vane. The bareshaft impact is a diagnostic tool, to provide more info about any tuning issues with the bow, any issues with the form of the shooter.

Take some paracord and tie a loop, that your hand can pass through. The loop (wrist sling) is a safety device,
so you no longer need to catch the bow, after the shot. Catching the bow after the shot, USUALLY decreases accuracy, catching the bow after the shot (cuz of no wrist sling) USUALLY increases group size. So, maybe you can bust nocks at 40 yards, if you start using a wrist sling.

As always, results rule. If you can get arrows touching at 40 yards, and have arrow #3 only 1/4-inch away, EVERY time you shoot 40 yards, don't change a thing (cept tie that wrist sling, so in case you do drop the bow, the wrist sling will catch your bow).
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Just checking, but you do know you aren't shooting at 40 yards in the video?
Yeah, that vid was from about a week ago shooting spots at 20yds. After that video I spent a week fussing with my form trying to get that elbow straight and fighting just about everything else from torque to seeing through my peep, leaning so far forward that I was off-balance, etc. Finally in frustration and desperation yesterday at the end of my session I just gave in to my "old" form with the bow arm slightly bent and everything lined up. I could see through my peep and sight fine. I could hold steady, and I could work through my release comfortably and confidently. It was upon doing this that I shot the group I described above.
 

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I would have suggested that increasing your draw length by half an inch might straighten your arm, but why change anything if you're shooting that well?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
@nuts&bolts

Ok, so I went out and gave the single arrow at 20yds thing a try. I failed. But, there are some interesting patterns I'd appreciate your take on if you're so inclined and have the time. Shots #1, #2, and #20 were the 3 on the left side of the 10 ring. #3 was the low-punched 8. After that, everything pretty well settled into that patch out to the left, until #20, which as far as what I felt and saw was a good shot.



Then, I backed up to 40 and shot that same arrow twice. Those are the 2 down in the blue. Consistent, though.



So first off it appears I need to move my gang windage left a bit and then lower my 40yd pin a bit. But, what's with the shots in the 10 ring at 20yds and then everything else further out left?
 

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Socket Man
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The farther you go back the more you miss to the left, when sighting in a bow i always suggest that a person goes back to their farthest distance and getting the bow dead on. Then when you move up to short distances you are going be more dead on.

The only reason that the bow will not hit the same at close and long distance is where the sight is not set up correctly or there is really poor arrow flight.

Secondly, when dialing in windage get a piece of cardboard and put a vertical piece of black tape on it and use this instead of aiming at something like your vegas target.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@Padgett That's good advice. I need to try tape at 60 then.

I made the adjustments I mentioned in my previous post and gave this another try. One arrow, twenty times, at twenty yards. Improvement, but still far from one hole and still a few fliers, but I seem to have gotten rid of the odd L-R bias. I believe this is because I was able to establish a consistent anchor with the back of my hand and my face.



And then a 5 shot group fired with the same one arrow at 40yds.



I believe that one out to the right was something I did as it is hot and I was getting tired. I made another slight windage adjustment after this.

At this point, I think I'm going to call it good for today. Our season opens tomorrow AM. Hoping for success!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Oh, and I did add a paracord loop per @nuts&bolts suggestion. In the past I'd always had one of those big braided slings on my bow and honestly felt like it just got in the way as much as anything. I'm still not 100% on the loop, but I can deal with it better than the big slings.
 

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Socket Man
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You aren't quite there yet on the windage. It took me a long time to figure this out but it is such a simple concept, Your arrow grouping should be a average where some hit left and some hit right and most hit dead on. then and only then is your windage dead on.

So looking at your last pic at 20 you either hit the left edge of dead on or missed left. You didn't have one arrow hit outside of the baby x to the right.
 

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Socket Man
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Take your time with becoming a strong shooter, just looking at your shooting form you have some work to do to get on top of things in the stance and grip and draw lenth and anchor etc. We work with people here all the time so it takes a couple weeks but it is worth it.
 

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Socket Man
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The windage thing again, omg.

Just sitting here thinking, most of us nibble on the edge. We move the sight a little and then a little more we end up never actually getting dead on because we are nibbling on the edge. My suggestion especially if you have a knob to turn is to just turn the dang thing until you start missing on the right a little and keep track of how many click you did and then back off a little to get dead on.
 

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Well, maybe I missed some things. What release are you using? It appears to be a index release (strap showing). I ask because your release hand looks terrible (hand bent down) and later you gave of having the back of your hand to your face. And it seems you're forcing your bow hand open. Your head seems tilted a bit. The bow comes to you, not you to the bow.....



ash556.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Release is a Scott Little Goose. I used to shoot with all bow hand fingers open. Was taught that way to eliminate torque. Started getting fletching contact on my pointer finger so I started consciously lightly touching my pointer finger tip to my thumb to move it out of the way. I guess I could consciously close the rest of the fingers too.
 

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Yeah, that vid was from about a week ago shooting spots at 20yds. After that video I spent a week fussing with my form trying to get that elbow straight and fighting just about everything else from torque to seeing through my peep, leaning so far forward that I was off-balance, etc. Finally in frustration and desperation yesterday at the end of my session I just gave in to my "old" form with the bow arm slightly bent and everything lined up. I could see through my peep and sight fine. I could hold steady, and I could work through my release comfortably and confidently. It was upon doing this that I shot the group I described above.
I don't of anyone claiming a straight arm is best. What you need is comfort and what works best for you because ain't nobody else shooting your bow.
 
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Release is a Scott Little Goose. I used to shoot with all bow hand fingers open. Was taught that way to eliminate torque. Started getting fletching contact on my pointer finger so I started consciously lightly touching my pointer finger tip to my thumb to move it out of the way. I guess I could consciously close the rest of the fingers too.
Just let your hand relax, don't hold your fingers open or consciously close them

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Release is a Scott Little Goose. I used to shoot with all bow hand fingers open. Was taught that way to eliminate torque. Started getting fletching contact on my pointer finger so I started consciously lightly touching my pointer finger tip to my thumb to move it out of the way. I guess I could consciously close the rest of the fingers too.
Well, forcing the fingers open is a no-no. Give your middle, ring and pinky something to do - wrap them around say a double AA battery. You don't need them to draw. Hand should be relaxed before even beginning to draw. You don't grip the riser grip, period. If you want you can touch the front of riser with your index finger.


hand position 001a.jpg
 
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