Archery Talk Forum banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,408 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Dave Cousins is representing the USA at the World Archery (fita) 3D champs in Italy. In order to compete you have to be endorsed by an official archery body (IBO, Asa, NFAA, ect).

We haven't sent a team in years and as far as I know there was never a team trial - anyone know which body endorsed him??

Matt
 

·
Archery Blogger/Writer
Joined
·
9,332 Posts
Dave Cousins is representing the USA at the World Archery (fita) 3D champs in Italy. In order to compete you have to be endorsed by an official archery body (IBO, Asa, NFAA, ect).

We haven't sent a team in years and as far as I know there was never a team trial - anyone know which body endorsed him??

Matt
Read up on the Ted Stevens act. If Dave is willing to fund himself, and I'm sure USA Archery won't mind him going, he can go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,408 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Read up on the Ted Stevens act. If Dave is willing to fund himself, and I'm sure USA Archery won't mind him going, he can go.
I understand how the Stevens act works. My question is who endorsed him? If it was USAA could you put together a team of archers and get endorsed? Compound is only 1/4 of the shoot longbow, recurve, and barebow make up the rest. I shoot IBO RU (barebow) and if they would endorse a team we could put it together in a heart beat (self funded).

Matt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,485 Posts
I would love to see that happen. I think it would add a lot to the event and the European guys would welcome the competition, as we would always welcome their participation over this side of the pond.
 

·
Archery Blogger/Writer
Joined
·
9,332 Posts
I understand how the Stevens act works. My question is who endorsed him? If it was USAA could you put together a team of archers and get endorsed? Compound is only 1/4 of the shoot longbow, recurve, and barebow make up the rest. I shoot IBO RU (barebow) and if they would endorse a team we could put it together in a heart beat (self funded).

Matt
Yes. This is a FITA event, so USA Archery is the body that would be officially sending the group.

I've been involved with independent groups that has gone down and shot with a mixed USAT, JDT, and Non-USAT archers. It's pretty easy to get permission if you know the event exists.

But, there's a flip side to that. Organizing a team is not as easy as one thinks. There's lots of work, even down to which uniform one wears. It's easier for Dave to go by himself than to send a team down there.

-Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,034 Posts
All those competitors have shot a series of National qualifiers and each of the 3 shooters of the 4 divs is ranked as the top 3-4 shooters in their respective countries, this is a criteria of the WA3D tourneys. It's great to see USA in the tourney but it looks like Dave bypassed the whole national selection process, which technically is against WA3D rules and kinda downplays all the hard work all the other competitors put in.

At least I hope Dave has opened some doors as I know a few USA shooters are pretty interested in WA3D and we would love to see a full USA team come again, it doesn't quite feel like a World 3D without USA attending, as we know you have some class shooters in the IBO.

Here it's not that hard for me to get in top 3 of any Div as we have so few Archers but Italy, France and Spain take it seriously and those positions are hotly contested, I was told a couple of years ago that Italy have a 50,000 Euro budget for WA3D selection events and team sponsorship.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,053 Posts
It sure seems like an issue for the USA now. I'm not sure the IBO and USAA cooperate closely, or even if a cooperation is needed. USAA operates under WA rules, but really does not pay much attention to 3-D. 3-D in the USA is dominated by other organizations. So, I imagine a USA international team must be sanctioned by a body that does not shoot 3-D? Would USAA spend monies on 3-D? Or would they partner with an organizing body like the IBO? Is there even any interest to explore this from the various organizations?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,158 Posts
IBO and ASA are NOT associated with USA Archery. Thus you won't see those two organizations trying to sponsor a "WA 3-D team" for the United States or putting on a qualifier. The shooters MUST be members of USA Archery/WAF in order to try to qualify and to compete. Would this even come up at all if it was Levi, or Nathan, or Danny M or one of those that was over there competing? I doubt it.

Perhaps Dave is the ONLY person from the USA that knew about this event and that wanted to participate? You also have to remember that the World Championships are going on in TURKEY right now, too...and THAT ONE is a "biggy" compared to the WAF 3-D event in Italy.

Maybe if the USA would advertise things about the WORLD TOUR of the WAF/USA Archery, people may show more interest? Doubtful, however, since there are restrictions on "aids" being allowed out on the courses in WAF 3-D. Especially when it comes to "wind protection."

field14 (Tom D.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,317 Posts
So, a wolf is about to descend upon the flock of sheep that makes up Eurocentric 3D. Should be good for them!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
Dave's participation in the Team Gold at last years WA Field Championships (with Kaminski and Eagleton) couldn't have hurt. Day one of the FITA field round is unmarked so, Dave has at least that part of the prerequisites covered. His overall Field skills showcase his ability as a shot maker. If it wasn't Dave, of the USA International experienced shooters, Jesse Broadwater probably would be another logical choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,034 Posts
Dave is very welcome but it would have been better to also see Longbow, Barebow and Instinctive divisions represented by USA, it's not like you don't have enough great shooters to make a full team :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,158 Posts
I would say that very few from the United States even know about this tournament and/or others in Europe.
FITA FIELD is not really shot much in the United States, either. So even fewer know about any FITA Field events or when and where they are held.

The FITA divisions of which you speak, are not well manned or attended here in the USA either.

When I go to any event, be it Field, Target, or even indoor, I can usually count the participants in longbow or instinctive on LESS than one hand...and normally don't have to count them, because there simply aren't any! Barebow MIGHT have a few, but mostly at the National Level events or Vegas. Don't see many of them...and NONE shooting recurved bows anymore....sad but true.

If nobody knows about the FITA field events, it is difficult to get them to come to them, is it not?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,408 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I would say that very few from the United States even know about this tournament and/or others in Europe.
FITA FIELD is not really shot much in the United States, either. So even fewer know about any FITA Field events or when and where they are held.

The FITA divisions of which you speak, are not well manned or attended here in the USA either.

When I go to any event, be it Field, Target, or even indoor, I can usually count the participants in longbow or instinctive on LESS than one hand...and normally don't have to count them, because there simply aren't any! Barebow MIGHT have a few, but mostly at the National Level events or Vegas. Don't see many of them...and NONE shooting recurved bows anymore....sad but true.

If nobody knows about the FITA field events, it is difficult to get them to come to them, is it not?
We aren't talking field, target, or indoor we are talking 3D and our barebow, longbow and recurve 3D shooters can compete with anyone. Have you ever heard of IBO trad worlds? We have a bunch of great shooters who would love a chance to represent the US at these events.

Matt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,158 Posts
We aren't talking field, target, or indoor we are talking 3D and our barebow, longbow and recurve 3D shooters can compete with anyone. Have you ever heard of IBO trad worlds? We have a bunch of great shooters who would love a chance to represent the US at these events.

Matt
Yes, BUT...are they USA Archery members? Do they compete in WAF/FITA events? Just cus they shoot IBO doesn't make them automaticall qualify to shoot the WAF events. Like everything else, they've got to be MEMBERS of the association in order to be eligible to compete.

Being from IBO, it is highly likely they are NOT informed or know about the events and/or how to qualify to go compete in them.

Obviously, Cousins has competed on a WORLD CLASS scale for years, and is a member of the WAF/USA Archery, the NFAA, and perhaps even IBO and ASA (don't know the reciprocity for sure among NFAA, IBO, and ASA). He regularly competes "over there" as to several other top World Class American archers.

Gotta be part of the pie in order to be eligible to compete. Thus, tell people about it, have them check into how to become an eligible member so that they can compete in those events, and etc...

It ain't gonna happen for them by talking about it. They'll have to get off the porch and go for it. IBO doesn't have reciprocity with WAF/FITA.

field14 (Tom D.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,053 Posts
I guess it would make too much sense for USAA to have some sort of cooperative effort with the USA organizations of archery who shoot 3-D? If you're not going to promote a certain form of archery that WA endorses, it makes sense to seek a cooperative agreement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,158 Posts
I guess it would make too much sense for USAA to have some sort of cooperative effort with the USA organizations of archery who shoot 3-D? If you're not going to promote a certain form of archery that WA endorses, it makes sense to seek a cooperative agreement.
So, tell the IBO to get out and starting talking with WAF/FITA and NFAA concerning WORLD CLASS overseas events then.

The Target World Cup Series is gaining in popularity in leaps and bounds. Why can't this type of thing be growing in leaps and bounds with regard to obviously the "little known" 3-D events.

Then, the "3-D Worlds" would really be WORLDS and not just a name given to people here in the USA that compete ONLY in the USA in the "IBO Worlds"...that obviously aren't "WORLD" events.

Just sayin'...IBO perhaps should start the conversation with WAF/FITA???
 

·
Lowered expectations
Joined
·
15,646 Posts
This thread got me thinking about if the Canadian team going to Italy for the WA 3D, so I went to the World Archery website to find out a little more about this tournament. It's not obvious, but you can find a link to the Sassari 2013 site. There's a listing of registered archers, and lo and behold, 11 registered from Canada. So I went to the Archery Canada website to find out a bit more, and there's nothing. No mention in any current news, upcoming shoots, nothing. I did a search for "Sassari" and finally found the team names from a 2012 item in the minutes of a meeting. Just for fun I went to the USA Archery site, and after 5 minutes of searching I came up with nothing - zero - nada - zilch.

Pretty much sums up the North American attitude towards WA (FITA) 3D.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,158 Posts
This thread got me thinking about if the Canadian team going to Italy for the WA 3D, so I went to the World Archery website to find out a little more about this tournament. It's not obvious, but you can find a link to the Sassari 2013 site. There's a listing of registered archers, and lo and behold, 11 registered from Canada. So I went to the Archery Canada website to find out a bit more, and there's nothing. No mention in any current news, upcoming shoots, nothing. I did a search for "Sassari" and finally found the team names from a 2012 item in the minutes of a meeting. Just for fun I went to the USA Archery site, and after 5 minutes of searching I came up with nothing - zero - nada - zilch

Pretty much sums up the North American attitude towards WA (FITA) 3D.
Therein lies the problem...LACK OF PROMOTION...and that isn't just in WA 3-D either! In addition, you are certainly right, but maybe it is the "attitude" of the American 3-D ORGANIZATIONS toward WA 3-D and NOT the competitors within North American 3-D!!! The attitude seems to be that they aren't about to give up their "piece of the pie" to any organization that holds 3-D events. Take a look at the scheduling...IBO and ASA are almost always scheduled against the other 3-D events from NFAA and WA 3-D...You think that is by accident?
The dialogue MUST start with the members of IBO asking WHY and then the members practically demanding that the IBO start talking with the WA 3-D to set something up so that IBO members CAN qualify to compete in WA 3-D events world-wide. The IBO management won't do it without being jostled into ti

Personally, I'd really like to see the IBO WORLDS be just that...WORLDS..meaning people from across the globe come to compete in that event, not just the United States. Then, like other events, people from the USA go overseas when the WORLD 3-D Championships are held "overseas", too. However, I seriously doubt that many from the IBO would go overseas or to Canada or to Mexico to compete in the WORLD 3-D championships. Some will, but it wouldn't be in "droves" like attend only here in the USA for the "Worlds".

It would be terrific for the IBO (and even the ASA) to "coordinate" with the WAF/FITA to get more promotion and announcements out on how to qualify to go to these 3-D events that are held overseas. Should be happening, but that is unlikely; sad to say but true.

I'm all FOR making the 3-D WORLDS a REAL "World Championship" and not just a catchy title that really only involves IBO...in the United States alone, for a "world" title.

field14 (Tom D.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,034 Posts
Like WA Field you can only send 3 shooters from each Div. It seems IBO did send a team in the early years 2005 where USA won Team event and Bill Leslie took 2nd in Longbow.

I sent 3-4 e-mails to IBO asking how I enter this event, they never replied.

When I lived and shot for UK when I asked officials if I could shoot this WA3D they said no and that nobody was interested (a total lie), I went anyway as Estonia's team coach and spoke the WA officials while I was there at Euro champs and they put pressure on ArcheryGB to let me compete. ArcheryGB released me so I could shoot for Estonia and I won wa3D worlds the next year, think it embarrassed them into sending a GB team that following year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
Take a look at the scheduling...IBO and ASA are almost always scheduled against the other 3-D events from NFAA and WA 3-D...You think that is by accident?
Actually...... once upon a time..... long, long ago....I worked in the ASA office for a couple of years...... and having been an active part of that process...... I can answer that question with a big YES, either accidental or just no other place to put the event on the calendar......most of the time the unusual scheduling of a repetitive event is due to cirmcustances that they just couldnt get around....

What usually happens is...... ideally, setting up the coming year's events by trying to stay as close to original dates that they have already on record in previous years is the best move for many reasons,....scheduling the familiar dates helps attendants to plan ahead for vacation time, get hotel reg. early, put money aside, get competitively prepared on a reasonable schedule..........which can in turn make for bigger attendance..... it also works well with scheduling repeat sites for the organizations....etc.....

Not everything that the organizations do is a "gotcha moment" aimed at their customer base.... with all of the tournaments that are now offered in this day and age of super - popularity of archery.... and so many people wanting to provide competitiion events for as many people as they can possibly get to attend their events.....wouldn't it be a really poor business practice to delibertly make attendance at their event a choice to be made over someone else's event..... what is to gain?
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top