Archery Talk Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,661 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
By By Mark Taylor
981-3395
The Roanoke Times

Jordan Vest has spent some time in the woods during Virginia's early archery seasons, tagging along with his bowhunting father, Allen.

This October the 14-year-old from Vinton will actually get to hunt as well. Unlike his dad, he won't be using a compound bow.

Jordan plans to use his new Barnett Quad crossbow.

"I like it," Jordan said of the crossbow. "It shoots pretty good."

Allen Vest said he believed a crossbow was a good way to introduce his son to archery season hunting.

"It's accurate and it's right fast," said Vest, who felt those were advantages over youth-model compound bows.

Across Virginia, hunters are taking advantage of a new regulation that will allow able-bodied hunters to hunt with crossbows during the state's archery seasons. The weapons are also legal during gun seasons.

Crossbow sales are booming.


"If I had them to sell, I'd be in good shape," said Alan Hipes at Bryansteens Gun and Archery in Roanoke, which sold out of its most popular models and awaited replenishing shipments.

Based on trends in other states recently approving crossbows, the regulation could attract as many as 10,000 additional hunters to archery season, which has attracted roughly 65,000 licensed hunters in recent seasons.

While the new regulation has been good news for sporting goods shops, crossbow manufacturers and hunters looking to expand their seasons, not all hunters are excited about the crossbow boom.

"I think it's the lazy man's way out," said Rick Gluth, a Botetourt County hunter who said he deer hunts only with a bow because he enjoys the challenge. "I feel like [crossbows] take the sport out of archery hunting."

Crossbows have several advantages over the compound bows favored by most bow hunters. A key one is that crossbows are pre-cocked, eliminating the need for a hunter to draw while remaining undetected by an approaching animal. Even though most modern compound bows offer let-offs of up to 80 percent, not even strong archers can hold at full draw for more than a couple of minutes.

Crossbows are also easier to set up, not requiring the specific tuning and fitting that compound bows require. Less practice time is needed to learn to shoot a crossbow with reasonable proficiency.

However, contrary to common perception, crossbows are more similar to compound bows than to guns.

Bolts and arrows fired by crossbows travel at velocities similar to or only slightly faster than arrows fired by a quality compound bow. That means hunters, to account for arcing bolt trajectory, still must be adept at judging distances.

Crossbows also tend to be louder than compound bows. So even if a crossbow shooter can consistently hit a small target at ranges of 50 yards and beyond, making a good shot on a deer, which are well known for flinching at the sound of a bow shot, is a different story.

"The range is 40 yards and in, preferably 30 yards and in," said Randy Wood, national sales manager at Tenpoint Crossbow Technologies. "And every manufacturer will tell you the same thing."

Mike Snead, owner of the Virginia Outdoorsman in Franklin County, said he is trying to educate his crossbow-buying customers, most of whom are gun hunters looking to expand their arsenals.

"They aren't archers," Snead said. "I tell them if they plan to kill a deer with this weapon, shooting the weapon isn't the most important thing."
Like any bowhunter, Snead said, a crossbow hunter will have to carefully choose his stand location, must be quiet, and must play the wind to give himself the best chance of getting a deer to within a reasonable range. And even when the deer is in range, the shooter must ensure the deer is broadside or quartering away to maximize the chances for a double-lung hit.

"The woodsmanship is the same," Wood said, likening crossbow hunting to hunting with conventional archery gear.

Greg Wolford of Roanoke County worries that some newcomers aren't getting that message.

"I've got a couple friends who are saying they can shoot a deer at 60 yards with a crossbow so they are going to get rid of their compounds," Wolford said with frustration. "You owe it to the deer to be 110 percent committed no matter what weapon you're using."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,637 Posts
willie said:
By By Mark Taylor
981-3395
The Roanoke Times

Mike Snead, owner of the Virginia Outdoorsman in Franklin County, said he is trying to educate his crossbow-buying customers, most of whom are gun hunters looking to expand their arsenals.

"They aren't archers," Snead said. "I tell them if they plan to kill a deer with this weapon, shooting the weapon isn't the most important thing."
Like any bowhunter, Snead said, a crossbow hunter will have to carefully choose his stand location, must be quiet, and must play the wind to give himself the best chance of getting a deer to within a reasonable range. And even when the deer is in range, the shooter must ensure the deer is broadside or quartering away to maximize the chances for a double-lung hit.

"The woodsmanship is the same," Wood said, likening crossbow hunting to hunting with conventional archery gear.

Greg Wolford of Roanoke County worries that some newcomers aren't getting that message.

"I've got a couple friends who are saying they can shoot a deer at 60 yards with a crossbow so they are going to get rid of their compounds," Wolford said with frustration. "You owe it to the deer to be 110 percent committed no matter what weapon you're using."

Pretty much confirms what bowhunters have been worrying about all along ....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,718 Posts
Willie,

You might want to design some kind of brake lights that you can clip on your back pockets that will warn Source when you plan to slow down. If you had to stop unexpectedly he might run right up your arse. :mg:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,661 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I think he is in love with me...

Why else would he hang around a crossbow forum talking about a piece of hunting equipment that he despises?

Everywhere I go, he follows.. I bet he is hiting the Goggle site typing in Willie and crossbow..and just hoping he can find a hit..

He has way too much time on his hands..

One would wonder if he is doing this on company time..??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,718 Posts
thesource said:
Pretty much confirms what bowhunters have been worrying about all along ....

"I've got a couple friends who are saying they can shoot a deer at 60 yards with a crossbow so they are going to get rid of their compounds
So bowhunters have been worrying that compound hunters are too stupid to realize that a crossbow doesn't have gun type range? I wonder what gave these COMPOUND hunters the idea that a xbow might perform like a shotgun. Maybe it's all the asinine "bowgun/crossgun" crap the anti-xbow guys spew. Maybe these guys read the NY piece and were too dense to realize it was filled with BS.


most of whom are gun hunters looking to expand their arsenals.
That's where 99% of compound hunters come from.

"The woodsmanship is the same," Wood said, likening crossbow hunting to hunting with conventional archery gear.
And that's the big picture!!!!!!


Greg Wolford of Roanoke County worries that some newcomers aren't getting that message.
You have people like theSource to thank for that. I've maintained for years that the anti-xbow crowd is to blame for most of the misconceptions about xbows. They are the best advertisers the crossbow industry has. No manufacturer could get by with the claims teh anti-xbowers make. It would be false advertising.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,637 Posts
DougK said:
The shame!

How a hunter-any hunter-could stand in the way of a father/son wanting to enjoy time in the woods escapes me,,
Tsk, Tsk

That is a misdirection if I ever saw one. My sons started hunting as soon as they could with a bow (14 in our state) without any problems.

But our father/son time in the woods started WELL before that.

It doesn't take shooting to equal hunting - some of my best hunting memories involve being on stand with one of my boys as deer came in. They were thrilled, and hooked on hunting before they were 10 ....without ever carrying a weapon or shooting at a deer.

Imagine that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,346 Posts
Source...no sense wasting your breath:^)

This is nothing more than folks/society following the path of least resistance.

It is truly sad that dear old dad did not think enough of his kid to introduce his 14 year old son to archery at an earlier age. I don't know of many kids that couldn't pull back hunting weight real archery equipment at 14 years of age.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,718 Posts
But our father/son time in the woods started WELL before that.

It doesn't take shooting to equal hunting - some of my best hunting memories involve being on stand with one of my boys as deer came in. They were thrilled, and hooked on hunting before they were 10 ....without ever carrying a weapon or shooting at a deer.
Hence, you believe that everyone should do things just like you. Every father and son relationship in the woods should follow your example. Quite pompous don't ya think?


Retrogrouch,

It is truly sad that dear old dad did not think enough of his kid to introduce his 14 year old son to archery at an earlier age.

This might be an all new low. For anyone to degrade the relationship of a father with his son in the woods because they chose to use a crossbow shows not only ignorance but a hateful meanness. It also shows a severe lack of decency. For you to act this way, you must suffer from a desperate need to prove your own self-worth. By believing that fathers who take their sons hunting with crossbows don't care enough about them, you get to place yourself ahead of all of them. Why do you feel the need to do that? Just exactly what is it that you are lacking?

You're probobly the kind of father who would force his son to play football rather than soccer, even if the boy loved soccer, because football is more of a tough guy sport. And, your ego is too fragile to allow anyone to think that a son of yours would ever do anything less than the biggest and baddest.

You are probobly the kind of father who would force his sons to do things exactly the way you do even if it makes them totally miserable. You care more about what others think than what would make your sons happy.
Do you think it's possible that there are kids, or others in general, who really enjoy hunting and put a great deal of effort into it but don't care much for shooting a compound bow?


I'm sure you will be thrilled with this post. That was my intention. But before you get all bent all out of shape, you have to realize that I haven't done anything that you haven't. In fact, you drew first blood. You took one tiny piece of information about a father and son and concluded, "It is truly sad that dear old dad did not think enough of his kid..." That is one hell of a nasty thing to say.

I, on the other hand, took one tiny quote by you and concluded that you are insecure and hateful. There is much more logic and reasoning in my criticism of you than there is for you rcriticism of that father.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,666 Posts
retro-grouch said:
Source...no sense wasting your breath:^)

This is nothing more than folks/society following the path of least resistance.

It is truly sad that dear old dad did not think enough of his kid to introduce his 14 year old son to archery at an earlier age. I don't know of many kids that couldn't pull back hunting weight real archery equipment at 14 years of age.
That path of least resistance has been traveled for eons by almost everyone. I bet you've been down it too.

What about younger than 14? What about a daughter instead of a son? What should I tell my 11 yr old daughter - "Two guys on AT say you have to wait."
"But dad how come it was ok for me to shoot a big gobbler this spring with a gun? I want to go bowhunting with YOU this year. I can shoot the xbow now that's it's legal. Can I go?"

You seem to have all the answers. So....help me out with that one will you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,637 Posts
Its legal in VA - do it.

You seem to have had no personal trouble with conversion to the new rules.

I think most of the rhetoric on sites like this is aimed at those places where crossbows are not yet legal during bow season.

I think you may be missing the other point. What's important is to get children involved. That doesn't necessarily mean doing the actual shooting.

I wonder how many of these "crossbow for kids" advocates bother to take their kids with them currently? Watching is learning too, wouldn't you agree?

And some of it is beyond the pale. I read a post recently where a father hoped that crossbows would be made legal so his 5 year old could "hunt" with him.

5 years old. Hunting, shooting, pulling the trigger, killing. Is it just me, or does that seem perhaps a bit young?
 

·
Archery Coach
Joined
·
23,297 Posts
DougK said:
Source is at over 300 posts+

I wonder how many concern the xbow.. :rolleyes:

I think Source is facinated-even envious of the xbow :)

All but about 7 or so-(No I am not going to waste my time counting all his BS-I was basing this on the fact that his first 150 posts had 3 non xbow related posts)


I am still waiting for one of these anti xbow whiners to tell me how they are hurt by someone else using an xbow. The gun hunter bash is funny. Insulting crossbow archers isn't enough for these greedy guys-they have to smear the biggest class of hunters as well.

Most compound hunters started as gun hunters too
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,666 Posts
Jim C said:
Most compound hunters started as gun hunters too
I know one that shot a bow first. And it was a recurve way back then too.
Still have it. The equipment evolved and so did I.
 

·
Archery Coach
Joined
·
23,297 Posts
BigBirdVA said:
I know one that shot a bow first. And it was a recurve way back then too.
Still have it. The equipment evolved and so did I.

80% started as gun hunters. I know a few too but even Fred Bear used to appeal to gun hunters to be two season hunters and get the advantage of a longer season.

95% of bowhunters are just that-and NOT archers. The bow is a tool to gain that extra season. 98% of the crossbow guys are the same. neither is a problem.

Me-I am an archer who happens to bowhunt. If bowhunting ceased to exist tomorrow- it really wouldn't affect me all that much. I however, fully support those who see bowhunting as the only reason to own a bow
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,083 Posts
Jim C said:
I am still waiting for one of these anti xbow whiners to tell me how they are hurt by someone else using an xbow. The gun hunter bash is funny. Insulting crossbow archers isn't enough for these greedy guys-they have to smear the biggest class of hunters as well.

Most compound hunters started as gun hunters too

After reading the way some people act on here and other boards, I am almost ashamed to call myself a bowhunter. For fear of being labled as one of those rabid anti xbow idiots. :thumbs_do

It's a sad day when so-called hunters try to keep anyone from hunting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,637 Posts
Jim C said:
80% started as gun hunters. I know a few too but even Fred Bear used to appeal to gun hunters to be two season hunters and get the advantage of a longer season.

Fair enough - but those gun hunters who now shoot compounds wanted to hunt in bow season enough to get off their butts and learn to shoot a bow.

What exactly does that imply about those who didn't, who now want into bowseason?

The opportunity has always been available for anyone with a desire to bowhunt, in all 50 states.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,666 Posts
thesource said:
Fair enough - but those gun hunters who now shoot compounds wanted to hunt in bow season enough to get off their butts and learn to shoot a bow.

What exactly does that imply about those who didn't, who now want into bowseason?

The opportunity has always been available for anyone with a desire to bowhunt, in all 50 states.
We learned because the state said if you want to bow hunt this is how you must do it. Now the state says different and people are taking them up on it. Just like when the state said muzzle loaders can now hunt during archery season. It's not our season or decision - it's the states. They decide who, when and with what based on many reasons.

What about bad shots or compound hunters with minimal proficiency? That's ok because they are using a compound? Personally for the good of hunting with an arrow in general I would rather see them pick up a xbow and kill, not wound a deer. It they're going into the woods to take game then they need to use whatever tool allows them to do it the best. I've seen some rotten shooters on public land hunts. One place told us the archery hunt was almost stopped because of the wounded and not recovered deer. They went on to say archery was not considered a management tool and it was for recreation only. That's how biologist view archery in many places - recreation only. I would rather see xbows allowed for the bad shooters than to lose the season all together. Since there is no proficiency standard required to bowhunt why is it assumed that all compound shooters are accurate?

So since I've shot over 50 deer with a compound bow is it ok for me to hunt with the xbow since I've proved I'm worthy?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,637 Posts
Bigbird

That was one quick turnaround. From opposing crossbows, to trying crossbows, to buying crossbows, to insinuating that crossbows should replace bows.

You must be tired.
 

·
Archery Coach
Joined
·
23,297 Posts
thesource said:
Fair enough - but those gun hunters who now shoot compounds wanted to hunt in bow season enough to get off their butts and learn to shoot a bow.

What exactly does that imply about those who didn't, who now want into bowseason?

The opportunity has always been available for anyone with a desire to bowhunt, in all 50 states.

compounds allowed lots of gun hunters to hunt in bow season without being full time-or even part time archers. crossbows do the same thing. BFD. if you want to ban crossbows from bowseason you are hypocritical in not wanting to ban compounds because both allow someone to bowhunt effectively without actually training in archery

BTW lots of trad archers don't train enough to shoot well either
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,666 Posts
thesource said:
Bigbird

That was one quick turnaround. From opposing crossbows, to trying crossbows, to buying crossbows, to insinuating that crossbows should replace bows.

You must be tired.
Tired of trying to convince people in the really big picture it makes any difference.

Lets see.........first VA gives us an archery season.
Then they allow muzzle loaders in the last and best 2 weeks of it.
Then they let xbows in there too.
They're trying to tell me something and I think I finally heard it.
IT DOESN"T MATTER WHAT YOU HUNT WITH !!!
The ML season removes 80-90% of the archers in those last 2 weeks. So why should I limit myself during the first or archery only part? I still think VA made a mistake putting them all together - as far as $$ are concerned. You would get the same people buying a different license to hunt with a different weapon if it was a different time period. But hey if they want to lump them all together I'm tired of worrying about it. The state quit caring about archers as a group years ago. They found they can jerk us around and we'll still buy a license. So what incentive is it for them to cater to us? The so called archery group for VA is basically non-existant so why fight it? I'm at the mercy of others and always will be. Enjoy the ride while you can. When I'm in my blind or tree it won't matter to you or anyone else what I'm shooting. And it no longer matters to me. The deer I can't get the shot on with a bow will be taken by some ML next week anyway. See it really doesn't matter.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top