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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've always had a concern with cut on contact. Mind you all the deer I have shot have been with chisel tip type broadheads (wasp and muzzy). I know, through experience, that muzzy's bust through ribs, pulverizing them with a direct hit. So what happens when cut on contact hits bone, especially out of a low ke setup? I know deer aren't made of pineboard. But the muzzy's have no problem busting through a 3/8" board while a steelforce or stinger barely clears (actually, the steelforce tends to stop at the locking collar).
 

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I beleive that with a lower kinetic energy setup u would be better off with a cut on contact type head. if you take one of each type, use your bathroom scales to push each arrow through a block type or foam target and see for yourself how many lbs. of pressure each takes. hope this helps.
 

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I have to agree. I would think that anyone shooting a low kinetic energy setup would benefit by choosing a cut on contact type broadhead. I think if you're shooting higher up on the KE scale then that will open up your broadhead choices a little more and maybe give your shot placement a little more "forgiveness" on game. As for one being "better" than the other, I think it would be hard to say. I think a well placed shot is more critical than the head, BUT I have recently wondered what broadheads are best for "bad" hits when shot placement is a little off. I started a thread on this very topic and another AT member had great success with G5 Strikers, which I can't wait to try.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So, I'm taking it that the cut on contact would slice/split through bone, as opposed to crunching it like what a muzzy does? Does that take less energy to do? This is the issue. Many say "you need to use cut on contact", but with no real reason given. It's just assumed. Everyone talks about penetrating deer hide, but let's face it, only a bunny has softer skin. I'm more concerned with ribs and other assorted bones.
 

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Cut on contact heads take less KE to push through hide, but the reason they don't penetrate dense objects like wood is because of their shape. A Muzzy or Wasp Tip is designed to "seperate" rather than "slice", making a larger opening for the rest of the blades to pass through. However, this takes more KE to accomplish. a COC head will wedge when contacting a very dense material like wood or bone, but takes far less KE to penetrate flesh and hide due to its very shape and contour. If you are shooting a low poundage bow, the extra penetrating ability of a COC head can help, but if you encounter heave bone( shoulder blade) you probably will wish you were shooting the Trocar. This is why no matter what head you choose to shoot, accuracy is still the most important aspect. IMHO
 

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Some people slightly round the tip of COC heads, thinking that if bone is hit, it might be of benefit. I have no idea if it really helps.
 

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Cut on contact heads take less KE to push through hide, but the reason they don't penetrate dense objects like wood is because of their shape. A Muzzy or Wasp Tip is designed to "seperate" rather than "slice", making a larger opening for the rest of the blades to pass through. However, this takes more KE to accomplish. a COC head will wedge when contacting a very dense material like wood or bone, but takes far less KE to penetrate flesh and hide due to its very shape and contour. If you are shooting a low poundage bow, the extra penetrating ability of a COC head can help, but if you encounter heave bone( shoulder blade) you probably will wish you were shooting the Trocar. This is why no matter what head you choose to shoot, accuracy is still the most important aspect. IMHO
Beautifully said. I absolutely could not have said it better if my life depended on it. This is correct.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Cut on contact heads take less KE to push through hide, but the reason they don't penetrate dense objects like wood is because of their shape. A Muzzy or Wasp Tip is designed to "seperate" rather than "slice", making a larger opening for the rest of the blades to pass through. However, this takes more KE to accomplish. a COC head will wedge when contacting a very dense material like wood or bone, but takes far less KE to penetrate flesh and hide due to its very shape and contour. If you are shooting a low poundage bow, the extra penetrating ability of a COC head can help, but if you encounter heave bone( shoulder blade) you probably will wish you were shooting the Trocar. This is why no matter what head you choose to shoot, accuracy is still the most important aspect. IMHO
THANK YOU:cocktail: Well done. This is the kind of info I was looking for.:wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Some people slightly round the tip of COC heads, thinking that if bone is hit, it might be of benefit. I have no idea if it really helps.
I actually do the opposite. I sharpen the edges of the trocar tip so it will more easily poke through a test hide.
 

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Both will do the job.
I have used coc heads for 20years, they are my head of choice.
I think its just more of a solution waiting for a problem type of debate.
My head of choice is Magnus 100gr vented. The reason is that I can sharpen them. And sharp they are, I am a sharp head fanatic. You simply do not want to try and shave hair with one of my heads.:eek:
When a game animal has no reaction at all to my hit, my preparation has paid its dues.
I hate seeing game run helter skelter when hit, with sharp coc heads,it does not happen.
Preparation to me is part of the hunt, when an animal bleeds out without running, I know it was worth it.
Kind of like a paper cut, you may not know when it happened, but it sure bleeds. On the other hand,you sure can feel it when you hit your finger with a hammer.
Just my thoughts and reasons.
 

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Absolutely, both heads are more than adequate for any big game animal. But no matter how sharp you make your broadheads, or which type of broadhead you choose, if you impact heavy bone the animal is going to feel it. I do applaud you on the great care you take to prepare your equipment. It would probably be shocking if we knew how many archers go the entire season and never resharpen or replace their blades. Many bowhunters don't realize how dull blades can become just by removing them from the quiver or bumping them on brush.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Both will do the job.
I have used coc heads for 20years, they are my head of choice.
I think its just more of a solution waiting for a problem type of debate.
My head of choice is Magnus 100gr vented. The reason is that I can sharpen them. And sharp they are, I am a sharp head fanatic. You simply do not want to try and shave hair with one of my heads.:eek:
When a game animal has no reaction at all to my hit, my preparation has paid its dues.
I hate seeing game run helter skelter when hit, with sharp coc heads,it does not happen.
Preparation to me is part of the hunt, when an animal bleeds out without running, I know it was worth it.
Kind of like a paper cut, you may not know when it happened, but it sure bleeds. On the other hand,you sure can feel it when you hit your finger with a hammer.
Just my thoughts and reasons.
I have seen exactly what you're talking about on video with traditional archers. 2 things I notice right off the bat: 1. The shot is almost always a pass thru 2.The deer doesn't run off to the next county. Contrast that with some videos I've seen where the buck is flying off to parts unknown with an arrow protruding halfway out it's side. There was a Primos "The Truth" video where they were pimping off Muzzy Phantoms. One buck just stood there like "what the heck?!" with blood pouring from behind his leg. The buck had no idea he was hit.
 

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a good coc broadhead will not fail when bone is hit. I can honestly say that i have pulled a couple of shots and had complete pass thru both shoulders of a mature deer. but, this is with a 74lb. draw and approx. 400 grain arrow, g5 strikers and magnus 2 blades have taken about the last 30 or so deer i've killed without letting me down. happy hunting!
 

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I'm not sure if it's an issue here but, I'd stay away from XX13 wall thickness and less aluminum arrows. Through experience (not good) I've found that the walls aren't thick enough to withstand hard impacts and the insert and broadhead will smash into the shaft.
 

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Coc

I am not sure what a coc broadhead would have done on this buck was shot at 35 yards and I made a bad shot on him I hit the upper leg bone shooting a 100 grain muzzy three blade broadhead the leg bone shattered but shooting a bow set at 54 lbs I did not have the energy to continue through the rib's. The deer was killed 2 hours later by a hunting partner after the animal was pushed through a funnel and was taken with another shot from 5 yards. I am confident that this muzzy would have killed the deer very quickly if I would have missed the leg bone and hit the ribs.
 

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coc

Here is the picture of the buck after the second shot. I know this was a bad hit and I feel terible that the animal had to endure the 2 hours of pain just for the record.
 

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this cut on contact head 100gr razorcap went through a shoulder bone and into a leg bone on the other side using a 67lbs bow
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Here is the picture of the buck after the second shot. I know this was a bad hit and I feel terible that the animal had to endure the 2 hours of pain just for the record.
Bad hits happen. I'm glad the buck was recovered. With my setup, a muzzy can bust through one set of ribs, but not a second. It must take up some energy to smash bone like a muzzy does. It would be interesting to see what a COC would have done with that shot.
 

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The very slightly convex shape to the Silver Flame broadhead is supposed to eliminate the pinching effect of a triangular 2-blade head when breaking bone.
 

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coc(montec) heads cut a smaller hole in and out ,and punch and cut heads (muzzy)
will cut a bigger hole in and out because the hide will push in before the blades start to cut.
try this with a piece of paper. the coc heads will start to cut
immediately as it hits the paper and the punch and cut heads will push the
paper in before it starts to cut.
 
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