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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone out there have a good cutshot table for up and down hills? I cannot seem to find an accurate one. They all seem to be off a quarter to half yard. I need every point I can get and would like to see if I can find a better one.
 

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Hey Footsteps, its called practice :D! If you haven't figured out how much to cut after all the years you've been shooting around your home range there's no hope for you, hahaha :p !

Beyond that, have you looked into AA's information. A number of guys out in CA at Redding were using the handheld Palms, AA, angle-finders, etc., plugging the info into the Palm and it seemed like the results they were getting were jiving pretty much with what my ol' eyeball technique was coming up - so I assume the program works pretty well :D!

Just remember, long uphill, shallow angle, you add yardage, not subtract ;);)!

See you in Kenosha in a couple days.................:)

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Practice? You mean I have to Practice

CH, I have printed a few from AA and even have a palm with AA but have not found it to be just right. I guess I am just to critical. I can handle most cuts as you know where I practice but, would like that extra confidence of a double check if you know what I mean. I shot a 279 half on Tuesday. Missed one on the 25 yd. Argh.:confused:

See you on Saturday.:)
 

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Footsteps-

Has anyone ever measured the angle of the 65 yard downhill. The reason I ask is that TAP shows 63.97 for 10 degrees and 62.77 for 15 degrees. The fact that most people take off 1.75 yards would indicate that the angle is around 13 or so degrees.

Just curious......

Maybe TAP should have 1 degree increment for the chart?
 

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First off, unless two conditions exist BEFORE OR DURING the shot, the 'cutshot table' is USELESS to you - - it WILL NOT provide you with an automatic 5 and may even hurt you.

The two conditions are:

1. The YARDAGE measurement to the block MUST be correct. In the case of most field courses, that is always in question. There are ways to tell, but you have to have PRACTICE and EXPERIENCE to be able to figure this one.

2. You must be able to HOLD STEADY, and shoot a properly executed strong shot. MOST of us cannot hold that steady that a slight amount of cut will do us any good.

You still must be able to observe what is going on around you, who is shooting in front of you, your stance and how you react to that type of foot positioning, how well you are holding today, are you tending to shoot low or high today when you miss, has the course been shooting hot or are most of your misses YOU and not to do with the course measurement?

If you don't have this kind of consistency and knowledge, then, personally, the cut chart isn't the key to the problem.

Now, for people that know their form, know their equipment, and know whether or not their misses are THEM, their equipment, or the course measurement errors - - then using a cut chart will definitely help them - they are good enough to SEE the benefits. For the rest of us, the cut chart can be another one of those 'excuse crutches' that we use so we don't have to get out and learn to shoot our sticks and master the techniques - cuz if we miss after using the cutchart crutch, we can just say, "well the cut chart is wrong", or some other cop out.

I would say that anyone that can't shoot into the high 540s and into the 550's consistently needs to work on technique and form mastery and THEN think about using a cut chart.


By the way, Terry Ragsdale has NUMEROUS scores of 557 or better at National Field tournaments, and was the FIRST one to shoot a 560 in National competition. This feat was accomplished WITHOUT the use of a cutchart OR computer generated site marks - and I've see LOADS of 557 or better scores being shot WITHOUT those two tools having been utilized.

I am not saying they don't HELP, but in the wrong hands, they simply become another crutch used to avoid mastery of form, knowledge of technique, and observation of what is going on around you. Nice AIDS, but to depend upon them to automatically give me a 5 instead of a 4 - - Good Luck.

field14:) :D :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Good points field14! I shoot a pretty hilly course here in Wisconsin (flat compared to others around the country). The greatest angle is only 10%. I have never used a cut chart in any competition but thought I would look into it for the added "confidence" it may offer. I noticed when shooting the Nationals last year (placed second in AMFS) that a lot of pros and others used palms or charts. Every point counts and I feel if I could find a chart that worked for me, I would use it.
 

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I figured about 1-1.5 yard cut on the 65 yard target that TAP is speaking of. I cut 1.5 on the 80 walkup on that same course as well (but I haven't 20'ed very often to be an expert on that one!)

After playing with some numbers on the calculator, only a very steep angle at long distance would make enough difference to be greater than 1.5 yards. And by "very" steep I mean something that would be steeper than I have ever seen at Farmers' or any club in the hills of western Wisconsin. Just from experience I would cut a yard and start there on anything similar to what you're seeing Footsteps.

See all you guys at Kenosha tomorrow!
 

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What Paradox said, I haven't shot Farmers enough to remember all shots, but I don't seem to recall any needing a 2yd cut, little over 1 to 1.5 as Paradox said. Its been awhile since I shot Darrington, but I don't recall anything steeper than the 65, 50, and 55 targets on Farmer's course except for possibly a 25yd or 28-fan on one of the ranges. At the closer distance though you can be off a little and still catch a spot with your first arrow if executed reasonably well and then go to school from there.

See ya guys tomorrow as well - on a nice, flat range, lol!

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Are you allowed to use a calculator?

If r is the distance, and a is the angle from the horizontal, I think that the effective distance is just given by

r cos(a).

The keystrokes would be something like

a COS X r =

(but you'd have to put your calculator into "degrees" mode, and not radians or gradians).

The cosine of zero is 1, i.e., just shoot your normal distance.

If you correct by 10 degrees, note that cos(10 degrees) = 0.98, so you still shoot 98% of the distance....

Things get more interesting around 30 degrees, as cos(30 degrees) = 0.87....

And as you can guess, cos(90 degres) = 0.

kgk
 
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