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Hi Guys, I have a new stand in place and it has a gradual drop off to 40 yards. What is the rule of thumb for shooting Downhill or Uphill? I use a climber and sit 20 ft. up. I Shoot a Hoyt Ultratec and Easton 2413 XX78's and a 125 grain Wasp 3 blade.

Thanks, Dave
 

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I know this topic tends to stir alot of controversy...but IMO the slope and angle is moot.

The most important part is that you bend at the waist properly. If you don't do that, your anchor, line of sight, etc are all off.

With that said, I try to maintain a good T and bend at the waist for both uphill and downhill shots...and I shoot them for whatever my rangefinder reads...regardless of height/angle/etc.

Some may claim the laws of physics and gravity affect angular shots, but IMO the influences of DISTANCE (geometry) outweight that of GRAVITY and ACCELERATION (physics). When you factor in that you are not shooting in a vaccum and air resistance (i.e. against your arrow and vanes) also factors into the equation and translates to DECELERATION...the shot distance becomes more crucial of an element.

Again, I know this is a highly debated topic...but the above has worked for me.
 

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BowhunterNJ,

You think its a moot point because you've never shot 80 yards on a 30 degree slope up hill or down hill (why would you at the Pine Barrens....) ;)

DeerDave,
I've gone round and round with people on eders about this. Your best off posting this question in the General Archery section. Ask the tournament guys, they are the ones who REALLY see it in action. (Don't mention the treestand in the post because Clever_guy might have a s#$t-fit.)

If you look soley at the equations, then no, the angle doesn't matter and it comes out the same either way. What people fail to realize is that trajectory equations assume horizontal trajectory as the control. When you sight in you bow at 20 yards, you're already "arcing" the arrow upwards (otherwise arrow would drop below bullseye right? It doesn't shoot horizontal no matter what).

Uphill you have to aim high, downhill you have to aim low. Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it. Feel differently, show me the math, and prove it to me. I took Engineering Physics 1 & 2. I've been over the equations.....

Bo
 

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No you wont. Not at hunting distances. On a field course yes but at 20 yds he will be fine. Even at 40 or 50 yds you would only have to cut a couple of yds off your sight. Run it through archers advantage or the archery program.
 

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40 yards, downhill, out of a treestand.

If he doesn't aim low, he's going over its back....
 

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Bo hunter Yep!.... been there done that.
 

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He said "I have a new stand in place and it has a gradual drop off to 40 yards." He doesn't have anything to worry about. Unless his bow is shooting 200fps.
 

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If you are 45 ft up a tree and and deer walks 5 yards from the base and you shoot using your 15 yard pin (same as 45'), you will miss your mark substantially. As Bo Hunter says, horizontal distance is all that matters.

If you tend to have your stand high, this is an important concept to understand. Check out this link and see if the math doesn't make sense.

http://www.kingsmountainarchers.org/tips/angle-shots.html
 

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I believe that the horizontal distance to the target is the correct range. I Know by experience from shooting up hill (over thirty degrees estimated)with a range finder showing 30 yards resulted in a 6-8 inch high shot. The horizontal distance was closer to 15 yds. This was my first year bow hunting in the Superstition mountains, AZ and it was not the only time it happen till I learned the right way. If this theory is incorrect explain pendulum sights and why they work?
 

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The theory is incorrect because you weren't shooting 30 yards, you were shooting 15. You used your 30 yard pin at 15 yards, which is why you shot high. By the way, on a 30 degree slope, with a horizontal target distance of 15 yards, your rangefinder will read 17 (17.32 to be exact) yards, not 30. The angle would have to be 60 degrees in order to get a reading of 30 yards with a horizontal distance of 15.

I don't get what you don't get.

The horizontal distance to the target IS the correct range, its not about that.

I'll explain this one last time. IF the horizontal distance to your target is 40 yards AND you put your 40 yard pin dead on the bull, the following will happen:

Level Ground - Bullseye
Uphill - Low hit
Downhill - High Hit

Any target that is NOT level will yield a rangefinder reading LONGER than the horizontal distance, regardless of whether its up hill or down.

As brownhornet said, at bowhunting distances with todays modern equipment, for most purposes, its negligible from a treestand. BUt my guess is, from a treestand, located on a side hill, a 40 yard shot (again horizontal distance, not ranged), DOWN the hill from the stand, will result in a very high hit, or possibly a shoot over.

Bo

PS - How do pendulums work? Good from what I hear.
 

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SteveR:

Great site, and the math of course makes sense...in a vacuum. Although he mentions drag, he also uses a proprietary means of calculation to support his claims on the impact of drag (I have not validated Jackson's archery page, although I know it is a reputable site).

I'll stick with what has worked for me for years, both in hunting and on the 3D courses! :)

Also, in ALL the videos we watch and the shots that are made...how many times have you seen a shooter calculate the horizontal distance on a shot? I haven't seen it...ever. They whip out their range finder, click it, and shoot for it. That's what I do too, and just like for them...it works for me too! :)

But in all fairness, I hunt relatively flat lands but I hunt pretty high 25-35ft. Nevertheless, I'm not taking 60 yard shots uphill at 75 degree angles!

Has anyone actually spent the time proving all the "equations" and provided concrete physical testing through a machine? No human can validate it, because no one is perfect...and obviously all of us have different experiences which could be a combination of reasons why. (good and bad)

BTW, I too am curious about the pendulum sights...are they designed to account for all the factors represented on that website? (or in physics in general) I've never shot or studied the design of pendulum sights...so I really don't know.
 

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Bohunter, the angles were probably as you say - 60 degrees at 15 yds horizontal. The point is the rangfinder measured the actual line of sight distance, 30 yds, at the elevated target which actually was 15 yds distant horizontally, so we agree you must calculate the horizontal distance to select the correct pin.
 

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You took a 60 degree shot uphill at what in AZ? Elk? I don't claim to be an elk hunter, but I've never heard of one hanging out on a ledge! :D

Sounds like a shot from a Dall Sheep hunt somewhere in Alaska or the like! :D
 

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Again he said gradual drop off. Do you guys know what that means? He didn't say cliff. Who in the world bowhunts from 45 ft up a tree?

Why is it that whenever someone ask a basic question over here ever answer goes all the way to the extreme end of the problem. I am not worried about it. I know how to shoot. I also know when I need to add and subtract yardage. If you really want to know how to do it. Go practice. This is just like the arguement for a pendulim sight. Those are outdated and not needed with todays equipment.
 

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Yeah, they aren't impossible shots at all...especially for experienced shooters that often practice at such distances.

I'm just saying they are not WISE shots, considering all of the elements involved.

3Ds don't move...live animals do. That's enough for me to keep my release off the string.
 

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BH, with all due respect he asked the following:

"What is the rule of thumb for shooting Downhill or Uphill?"

We are discussing our rules of many thumbs to that question. He didn't ask for a simple answer ONLY to his forementioned setup ONLY.
 

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No it was a mule buck following a doe about 40 feet above the road leading from Apache Junction through the Superstition mountains. I had to climb up a steep near vertical rock fall next to the road to a level ledge. The deer were above on a sloping grade which ran from left to right and curved back away from the road. I could only see a small portion of their legs and a full side view of their body above the rim. A perfect chance at a beautiful animal. The experience was challenging and is still a good memory regardless of the outcome. Anyone familiar with the Superstitions can verify the type of terrain I'm trying to describe.
 

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The statements of the horizontal distance being the "true" distance are absolutely correct. Even though the line of sight may be 50 yards, if the horizontal distance is 30, use the 30 pin. Up or down hill doesn't matter after that. It will not shoot low going up hill and high going down. It's the same either way.

Best way to learn it is to shoot from your stand. Pick out a leaf directly below your stand, use your first pin and see where it hits.

Here's the rub...gravity only works in a vertical direction and the amount of time- as in seconds- the arrow is fighting gravity is what determines the amount of drop. Works the same up or down hill. Now, your change in body position will for sure effect shot placement, so the comment earlier about only bending at the waist is very valid. But, how often do you really have the opportunity to keep perfect form when shooting at an animal....rarely.

Best advice: Practice from your stand.

Erik
 

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Elk-Ruse,
You are 100 percent correct, and 100% incorrect.

The effect of gravity DOES act on the arrow in the same manner whether shooting up hill or down. The amount of time gravity acts on the arrow determines how much it drops, that is another fact. BUT the TRAJECTORY of the arrow is NOT the same uphill or down. On uphill shots you will shoot low, on downhill shots you will shoot high.

You guys are focusing on the wrong pieces of the puzzle. I'm posting this in the General Archery section. I think you guys will find the responses interesting to say the least.

BO

PS - I still agree with brown Hornet, at short distances with modern bows, put the pin on and shoot. I've got 1 pin, 0-30 yards, DEAD DEER.
 
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