[ProngHunter]

Hey guys/gals. I searched the forum but came up short on what I was looking for. I'm not real great with the searches yet.
I live here in Montana and we do VERY little treestand hunting. Everything from Antelope, Elk, Mule Deer and Whitetail are all usually spot and stock. Usually. I'm pretty succesful each year with a bow, but its always on the ground. I set up tree stands each year in our whitetail part of the area, but usually climb down and spot and stock or ground blind it. Last year was the first time I actually shot a deer from a tree stand and was the first time I lost an animal. :sad: I practiced time and time again shooting a deer target out of a tree stand from 10 yards out to 60 yards. Never had a problem. About 17ft to 20fts stands. Here is where my questions begin since tomorrow is opening day. The deer I shot last year that ended up getting away, I believe I shot high. I've always been told that arrows from a stand are no different than a bullet. Down hill, aim low, up hill, aim high. Well, with all my practiceing last year, I never noticed any difference when shooting at the down angle. I always hit where I was aiming except for at about 10 yards. A little high, but not much. Bow is a DXT, 30" draw, 70lbs and 306 fps. Maybe that info will help. My question is, where do the most of you aim when your pins are sighted in at level ground from 20-80 yards? At 10 yards, how low do you usually put your 20 yard pin, or do you? At 20 yards, how low? 30, 40, etc....? I have heard all different opinions, and now I'm hear asking again. Like I said, I've practiced and noticed very little. Always making sure my form is squared up before each shot. Where do the most of you aim with these yardages? Thanks so much for the help.

 

[shec6135]

uphill and downhill shots both you aim low... i'll try to find a post to help you out!

 

[Bearlee]

bend at the waist even in a tree stand.
droping your arm changes impact.
always measure yardage as if you would put a level on it.
let us say you are 21 ft in a tree
you shoot a 60 yd line of sight target
since Pythagoras taught us about right triangles and gave us a^2 +b^2 = c^2
then the true horizontal distance you are shooting winds up being
7^2 + b^2 = 60^2 therefore solving for b we get 59.6 yds
therefore you will hit slightly high but not worth adjusting
now if you are 30 ft in a tree and you are aiming at a target 60 yds away that is 10 yds below the base of your tree thrn
20^2 + b^2 = 60^2
b = 56.6 yds
which would mean you would hit about 5-6" high with a typical hunting setup.
This would be worth taking into consideration.

 

[shec6135]

assuming you are around 18ft/6yds. off the ground on average in all three equations i assumed you were using a rangefinder w/o arc capabilities and got the three readings 20yds, 30yds, and 40 yds. and have found [using the pathagareon therum(sp)] that if your cheap bottom of the line rangefinder says 20 yds it is actually 19.07 yds with arc, if it says 30yds it's actually 29.38yds with arc, and if it says 40yds it is actually 39.53yds with arc

basically if you're on a hillside or in a treestand the different in elevation is one side of a right triangle, the distance between you and your target if you were both level is the other side of the right triangle (the base), and the distance in line of sight or the actual distance your arrow will travel is the hypotenuse of the right triangle.

you're always solving to find the base of the triangle b/c whatever that is in yards, that's the pin you will use. (NOT the line of sight or "hypotenuse" in between you and the target at an angle)

A squared+ B squared = C squared

where c is always the hypotenuse (the line of sight or flight of your arrow)

and B and C are interchangeable one being the height difference between you and your target and the other being the base of that triangle (or the distance in between you and the target if you guys were both level with each other)



so if you are 21 ft (7 yards) off the ground and there's a deer that you range and it tells you it's 15 yards (or looks to be 15 yards from line of sight, from your eyes to the deer) then you can set up the equation like this

7x7 + BxB = 15x15
49+B2=225
-49 -49
B2=176
B=13.266 yards (the square root of 176)

so in a nutshell it's easier to just aim low, or if it's a downhill shot range a tree that's eye level with you and that your target's at the base of and use that yardage instead of the distance between you guys in your line of sight. good luck

 

[mathews mike]

I always just aim for the exit at 18 to 20 foot high basically put the pin where you want it to come out always works for me

 

[apache pilot]

this is a good thread. a good refresher for the upcoming season. i learned the hard way to aim low on those high angle shots. high shots are tough shots

 

[venisonvillain]

I have always aimed for the exit also. works really well for me too

 

[Skiminims]

Ike did a video not too long ago about shooting from a treestand. Hope this helps!

 

[M-Tecs]

I've always been told that arrows from a stand are no different than a bullet. Down hill, aim low, up hill, aim high.

The advice to aim high on an uphill shot is incorrect. Uphill or downhill is the same. It is based on line of sight distance verse level distance. The bullet or arrow is affect by gravity on a level distance not line of sight. When shooting up or down you hold for the distance that the target would be if you were both the same height.

If you and your target are at the same level and twenty yards apart you use your twenty yard pin. Now if you go straight up twenty yards you still use your twenty yard pin even though line of sight is 28 yards.

This is important with archery. Not some much with a gun as you need extreme angles and longer ranges for it to make a difference. Unless it’s 300 plus yards and 30 degrees up or down don’t worry about it.

When shooting from a stand the kill zone becomes smaller. With a high stand and close targets is easy to only hit on lung. Best advice it to aim for off side of the target where you want the arrow to exist.

 

[Pigeonfoot]

assuming you are around 18ft/6yds. off the ground on average in all three equations i assumed you were using a rangefinder w/o arc capabilities and got the three readings 20yds, 30yds, and 40 yds. and have found [using the pathagareon therum(sp)] that if your cheap bottom of the line rangefinder says 20 yds it is actually 19.07 yds with arc, if it says 30yds it's actually 29.38yds with arc, and if it says 40yds it is actually 39.53yds with arc

basically if you're on a hillside or in a treestand the different in elevation is one side of a right triangle, the distance between you and your target if you were both level is the other side of the right triangle (the base), and the distance in line of sight or the actual distance your arrow will travel is the hypotenuse of the right triangle.

you're always solving to find the base of the triangle b/c whatever that is in yards, that's the pin you will use. (NOT the line of sight or "hypotenuse" in between you and the target at an angle)

A squared+ B squared = C squared

where c is always the hypotenuse (the line of sight or flight of your arrow)

and B and C are interchangeable one being the height difference between you and your target and the other being the base of that triangle (or the distance in between you and the target if you guys were both level with each other)



so if you are 21 ft (7 yards) off the ground and there's a deer that you range and it tells you it's 15 yards (or looks to be 15 yards from line of sight, from your eyes to the deer) then you can set up the equation like this

7x7 + BxB = 15x15
49+B2=225
-49 -49
B2=176
B=13.266 yards (the square root of 176)

so in a nutshell it's easier to just aim low, or if it's a downhill shot range a tree that's eye level with you and that your target's at the base of and use that yardage instead of the distance between you guys in your line of sight. good luck

I don't understand this....

Say you are 21 ft up in a tree and the target is 20 yds or 60ft away.

A^2+B^2=C^2

A^2 = 441
B^2 = 3600
C^2 = 441+3600
C^2 = 4041
C = 63.57ft or 21.19 yds

Why would you aim low?

 

[Skeeter 58]

The only thing I'm an expert at is ticking off my wife.

But shooting from an elevated position is really pretty easy once you learn a few rules.

Draw your bow straight out in front of you as if your on level ground.

Come to full draw and anchor while still holding your bow straight out.

While maintaining as perfect of a "T" as you can, bend only at the waist as if you are rigid and hinged there and no where else.

Aim as if you are on level ground but DO NOT drop your bow arm.

You must bend at the waist ONLY. Yes it is spooky for some to be 20-30 feet up on a small platform and bend aggressively forward, but its necessary.

If you follow those steps, you will hit very close to spot on. Most you will be off is perhaps an inch or so. And an inch aint gonna matter.

Dont be fooled by those that try to tell you to use your 40 yard pin because they are not bending at the waist properly.

I've been taking very steep angle shots for over 25 years with success. And those are my self learned guide lines.

Just remember to swing your pelvis like Elvis. :grin:

 

[[email protected]]

It's nothing new having the arrows go high on whitetails, aim low, they drop at the shot a lot of times.

 

[GLW]

Keep it simple, get yourself a range finder with ARC and let it do the calculating. Or, buy a pendulam, but then you will be limited to around 40 yards.
No matter how good a shot your are, if you misjudge the distance, shooting high or low won't matter now, will it?

 

[Drcoffee]

You can use Trigonometry but the truth be told, the distance variance is insignificant unless you are shoot really long ranges or shooting down into a deep valley. What I have found is this. Gravity plays a bigger roll in arrow drop than does inclination. The solution is simple yet tricky. When shooting at >30yds upwards from the horizontal, add a couple of yards. If you are shooting downwards from the horizontal, shorten the ranged distance by a couple of yards.

So if you are shooting up at a deer lets say 30 degrees above the horizon at a range of 40 yds, use 43 yds as the corrected distance. In the reverse, if you are shooting down 30 degrees at a deer that ranges 40yds, correct the yardage to 37yds. I have also practiced this while 3D shooting this summer and it works. The reason I said it was tricky is because each setup has its own parameters. So you would need to figure out your own adjustment based on your own equipt.

The use of angulation compensated range finders works with bullets that are traveling 200-600yds and beyond at supersonic speeds. In the archery world where shots are usually 50yds and less at 250-300ft/sec, the inclination adjusted distance has no impact on shot placement. However, Gravity does. Gravity is pulling the arrow down constantly through its flight. Its slow and heavy and so its affect on the arrow is significantly under-appreciated. Its kind of like Kentucky windage.

If you want to do a test for yourself, place a target 40yds out and shoot the same point with the same pin for both an inclining and declining shot. The first shot will impact low and the second will impact high. In one shot gravity is helping, so less drop is appreciated through its flight. However, shooting upward you are fighting gravity and hence the arrow slows quicker and drops sooner. Simple eh?

Oh and one last thing, anything 0 to 20yds, the arrow flys flat. You don't need to compensate for angle up or down. Just put the pin on it.

 

[shec6135]

I don't understand this....

Say you are 21 ft up in a tree and the target is 20 yds or 60ft away.

A^2+B^2=C^2

A^2 = 441
B^2 = 3600
C^2 = 441+3600
C^2 = 4041
C = 63.57ft or 21.19 yds

Why would you aim low?

you want to convert everything to yard, so 21 ft is 7 yard, so it would be 7x7=49 not 21x21=441

AxA + BxB = CxC

7x7 + BxB = 20x20
49 + BxB = 400
-49 -49

BxB = 351

the square root of 351 is 18.73 not 21.19 yards

 

[shec6135]

You can use Trigonometry but the truth be told, the distance variance is insignificant unless you are shoot really long ranges or shooting down into a deep valley. What I have found is this. Gravity plays a bigger roll in arrow drop than does inclination. The solution is simple yet tricky. When shooting at >30yds upwards from the horizontal, add a couple of yards. If you are shooting downwards from the horizontal, shorten the ranged distance by a couple of yards.

So if you are shooting up at a deer lets say 30 degrees above the horizon at a range of 40 yds, use 43 yds as the corrected distance. In the reverse, if you are shooting down 30 degrees at a deer that ranges 40yds, correct the yardage to 37yds. I have also practiced this while 3D shooting this summer and it works. The reason I said it was tricky is because each setup has its own parameters. So you would need to figure out your own adjustment based on your own equipt.

The use of angulation compensated range finders works with bullets that are traveling 200-600yds and beyond at supersonic speeds. In the archery world where shots are usually 50yds and less at 250-300ft/sec, the inclination adjusted distance has no impact on shot placement. However, Gravity does. Gravity is pulling the arrow down constantly through its flight. Its slow and heavy and so its affect on the arrow is significantly under-appreciated. Its kind of like Kentucky windage.

If you want to do a test for yourself, place a target 40yds out and shoot the same point with the same pin for both an inclining and declining shot. The first shot will impact low and the second will impact high. In one shot gravity is helping, so less drop is appreciated through its flight. However, shooting upward you are fighting gravity and hence the arrow slows quicker and drops sooner. Simple eh?

Oh and one last thing, anything 0 to 20yds, the arrow flys flat. You don't need to compensate for angle up or down. Just put the pin on it.

or if you're shooting at something close to the base of your tree or you're really high up.

Baloney, the yardage never increases... it can only decrease based upon how much shorter the base of the triangle is compared to the hypotenuse

 

[Drawin Deadly]

I always just aim for the exit at 18 to 20 foot high basically put the pin where you want it to come out always works for me

FINALLY SOME ENGLISH BEING SPOKEN HERE. Thanks.

 

[Garceau]

guys even with the ARC numbers listed it was a half a yard difference....

seriously - at 300+ fps like he is stating that half yard wouldnt make a difference on a well placed shot.

Hell I know I have more than a half yard wiggle in my groups.

 

[Drawin Deadly]

most important though is bend at the waist... practice that it takes practice shooting at the off angle. Keeps your form solid.

 

[bowhunter2007]

ARC rangefinders are silly if you the everyday bowhunter sitting 20-25 feet in a tree. As long as your not shooting a rediculous way up a hill, or down a valley, it is not going to make enough difference that you could tell.