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Another rookie compound user question from a man that has shot recurves and longbows for 50 years. If you have a kisser button or a method of repeating your anchor point when you draw, is having a solid back wall all that important?
 

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Back wall is a personal preference and for most, depends on what style of release process they have. If you have a "pull" through the back wall style of release, then a solid back wall is commonly preferred. (Although some still prefer a little sponge, some like it rock solid)
 

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Some one with more expertise than me might have a better answer but the more solid the back wall the more consistent and repeatable your shot will be. There is less of a chance of creeping back into the valley of the draw cycle or pulling through the back wall if there is a more solid back wall. It usually promotes a more consistent end to draw cycle and a repeatable place to start firing method.
 

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Its funny to me. Everyone seems to like limb stops. I'll never own another limb stop bow. I prefer a little give. Most who shoot back tension will benifit from a little mush in the wall because pulling through the shot with limb stops really effects my float and gives me lefts and rights if I don't pull exactly the same everytime.

Now having said that there are quite a few excellent pro archers who are cashing those elite contegency checks so what do I know lol
 

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Some one with more expertise than me might have a better answer but the more solid the back wall the more consistent and repeatable your shot will be. There is less of a chance of creeping back into the valley of the draw cycle or pulling through the back wall if there is a more solid back wall. It usually promotes a more consistent end to draw cycle and a repeatable place to start firing method.

This is the reason.
 

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Great question, from the prospective of shooting a recurve or longbow for years as you have, I can understand the concept of whats the big deal. The skill that takes to be successful is just amazing to me and really the essence of a true archer. Most I have worked with over the years do not have that experience and many as they pull back their bow really pull back hard (most are way over draw weight they should be pulling). Without a solid wall many that muscle up and draw their bows back will never keep a common anchor point and will often dip their heads in or out to match up the string angle. That will create a varying sight picture that invites inconsistencies. I teach 3 points of contact, kisser, string, and hand. Kisser to mouth, string to nose, and hand to cheekbone (or a common point that works with their setup and draw angle). I find in working with shooters of all ages, the solid back wall is the start or beginning reference point of their points of contact that build consistency.
 

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I have one with limb a limb stop and another cable. I much prefer the cable stop feel. So rock solid hard as a rock isn't for me.
 

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Some one with more expertise than me might have a better answer but the more solid the back wall the more consistent and repeatable your shot will be. There is less of a chance of creeping back into the valley of the draw cycle or pulling through the back wall if there is a more solid back wall. It usually promotes a more consistent end to draw cycle and a repeatable place to start firing method.
And while a kisser can help with that repeatability, the shooter can also start smooching his lips and contorting his face to find it, not as repeatable.
 

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If your bow has less than 70% let-off, cable stops can provide a back wall that is solid enough.
But if your bow has 80+% let-off, you pretty much need limb stops in order to get the back wall solid enough to be consistent when using back-tension.
 

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If your bow has less than 70% let-off, cable stops can provide a back wall that is solid enough.
But if your bow has 80+% let-off, you pretty much need limb stops in order to get the back wall solid enough to be consistent when using back-tension.

In general this very accurate. For instance my Anarchy SC is a single cable stop, hate factory stop and put a Bomar. With about 72% let off, shoots great feels great with my hinge or old index. My Prime is 80% with limb stops, any less let off is a bit stiffer than I like but do able. Just learning bold @85% and its an interesting feel.
 

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The best shooters use the hardest back wall possible. I spent over 50 years shooting longbows, recurves, and round cams on compounds. I shot my best scores in the 80s and 90s shooting out of the center of the valley. In the last ten years, I have shot bows with a solid back wall, 75% let-off and a very short valley and I hate it. Pulling against the stops makes my bow wiggle.

I thought it was my age (69) causing the shakes. After reading an article about Merlin bows on AT, I took my old Merlin out and shot it a few days ago. What a pleasure. It held like a rock. Then after shooting the Merlin for a couple of hours, I decided that I better practice a bit for the State Blue Face I was to shoot the next day. I took my Hoyt and had a hard time trying to hold still in the X ring and the bow kept trying to pull forward while I aimed.

I continued to have trouble aiming the next day during the State Indoors. I looked like I was having seizures trying to hold still and I could feel the man behind me trying not to shoot at the same time as me. My point is that I should not shoot any old bows no matter how good they feel because it takes a few days getting use to the new bows again. I love shooting out of the middle of the valley on a bow with a 65% let-off and a long valley. I have just bought a new to me PSE with Drive Cams and hope that it is a little easier to hold that my Fuel Cams or Mini Evol cams
 

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The man behind would have shot a 300 but one of my jerky shots made him almost miss the whole target and he ended up with a 299. I did win the State, but I felt sorry for the guys around me and promise that I will not shoot an old bow again.
 

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The best shooters use the hardest back wall possible. I spent over 50 years shooting longbows, recurves, and round cams on compounds. I shot my best scores in the 80s and 90s shooting out of the center of the valley. In the last ten years, I have shot bows with a solid back wall, 75% let-off and a very short valley and I hate it. Pulling against the stops makes my bow wiggle.

I thought it was my age (69) causing the shakes. After reading an article about Merlin bows on AT, I took my old Merlin out and shot it a few days ago. What a pleasure. It held like a rock. Then after shooting the Merlin for a couple of hours, I decided that I better practice a bit for the State Blue Face I was to shoot the next day. I took my Hoyt and had a hard time trying to hold still in the X ring and the bow kept trying to pull forward while I aimed.

I continued to have trouble aiming the next day during the State Indoors. I looked like I was having seizures trying to hold still and I could feel the man behind me trying not to shoot at the same time as me. My point is that I should not shoot any old bows no matter how good they feel because it takes a few days getting use to the new bows again. I love shooting out of the middle of the valley on a bow with a 65% let-off and a long valley. I have just bought a new to me PSE with Drive Cams and hope that it is a little easier to hold that my Fuel Cams or Mini Evol cams
Sounds like you should just shoot the Merlin.

I do not like limb stops. Don't like the feel, don't like moving them around.

I think they were invented simply because somebody locked up a binary at 100% let off and had to make a production deadline. There's nothing to recommend them.
 

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If you are a shooter that likes to come to anchor and just sit in the valley and then once the pin is perfect you just dump the trigger then the wall really isn't something important to you. If you are a valley sitter that pulls into the shot then a hard wall is a bad thing because as you pull sooner or later you are going to run into the wall and you go from a nice smooth valley to a wall that pulls your pin off the 12 ring and you hate the wall.

When you learn how to shoot with Back Tension Preload where you come to anchor and then apply that preload to the wall you learn to love the wall and learn how to be inside the wall. With a cable stop bow you have more give and your grip of the release can be more rigid but and you can get inside the wall. With a limb stop bow you have to have a soft hand that allows you to stretch into the wall because your grip of the release is where the preload is stored.

If you have not learned the lessons of back tension preload you will probably not get along with a limb stop bow.
 

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I have found personally that the back wall doesn't make a difference in my scores in competition or practice. I'm not that advanced of a shooter yet, though - I shot a PB 284 (inner 10 scoring) on one of my rounds at indoor nationals last weekend with a medium-hard back wall bow. I hate that bow, so I won't name it, or talk about why I had to shoot it at the event. But, even in Masters division, that's only fair-to-middlin', so I'm not yet at a point where I've found it makes a difference compared to other more important aspects.

That said, I prefer a wall with more give and I'm not 100% sure why. When I shoot a hard back wall, I do like huteson2 describes above. The bow starts wanting to do something on its own right as I start to pull through the shot. It mostly wants to wiggle, but will also try to go the left or down or somewhere. My squishy back wall bow doesn't do that and I can trust that I'll pull it off the dot if I make a mistake rather than it trying to do something by itself. I'm not sure if the wall has anything to do with that or not, but it seems like it.

So I'd have to ask more shooters who are better than I am, but it sounds like it's a personal preference thing more than a more or less is better thing.

lee
 

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Socket Man
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Why is it a big deal?

1. Your front arm has to do way more work when your rear arm is really not helping, When your rear arm is applying preload to the wall it helps stabilize the aiming of the front arm and shoulder.

2. Pressure Changes: Pressure changes are the cancer of aiming, as you execute a shot and you add or subtract or pause the shot pressures to execute they translate over into weird and horrible pin float. By keeping a very stable amount of pressure against the wall you negate all the stupid pin float issues caused by pressure changes.


Now with this you must learn some fundamental things or you will be spinning in the mud hole, There are firing methods that go hand and hand with back tension preload that allow you to execute a release as you maintain that constant non changing pressure. They are subtly different than the valley sitting type execution methods but once you learn the things that allow you to do them you are good to go. Actually preload into the wall has some really nice affects on your firing methods if you allow it to happen where it adds a spring loaded effect to your release hand that compliments and boosts your firing efforts.
 

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Socket Man
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One of the biggest issues with a solid back wall is your draw length setting, when you have a nice long valley your draw length isn't a big deal because you come to anchor and are functioning on feel. You settle into the valley where it feels good and you could care less about the wall because you aren't really into the wall, you are just valley sitting out where it feels good. For you being able to feel this good fit is a nice thing and execution of the shot without the wall screwing with things is nice.

With a solid wall person you have to work on your draw length and get it down within a 1/8 inch of perfect so that you can get into the wall and apply your pressure before the shot starts and be perfectly stretched out into your perfect shooting form and feel. For guys that have never worked on their draw length specifically and have always just been valley sitters they get a limb stop bow or spiral cam bow and they suffer.
 
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