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Discussion Starter #1
I have a flemish twist fast flight plus string. Rated for 70# and I am using 45#. Seems every few hundred shots my string stretches a little and lowers my brace height by .25", it will then need about three to four twists to go back to where it belongs. It has probably stretched a couple inches since I have had it now, I'm sure I am around 20 twists now. Has anyone had this happen with fast flight? The excess tag ends don't seem to be getting shorter on the top loop, the bottom loop doesn't have tags at all.

I had a string do this years ago, it stretched on me for like two years. I blamed a dry fire on causing it to happen. Eventually after many thousands of shots it failed and broke. This current string has never been through a dry fire, though I did once accidentally shoot an arrow that was too light at 7 gpp, but that shouldn't have been enough to explain this should it?

I'll continue to use it for a while longer and hope it stops stretching for now in hopes that it is still settling somehow. As anyone else had this happen? Maybe a string maker could explain to me how this is happening.
 

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Assuming you’re sure it’s Fastfilght and not Dacron, then it’s just the end splices settling down. Whoever made it might have not done the splices tightly. Also assuming you don’t have a string stretcher of any type, what you could do is hang the string from a hook on the wall or ceiling, attach a very heavy weight (100# plus) of some sort to the end and let it hang (without spinning) overnight.

If it’s actually stretched “a couple of inches” since you got it (doubt it if you’ve only added 20 twists), then you have a piece of junk there.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Assuming you’re sure it’s Fastfilght and not Dacron, then it’s just the end splices settling down. Whoever made it might have not done the splices tightly. Also assuming you don’t have a string stretcher of any type, what you could do is hang the string from a hook on the wall or ceiling, attach a very heavy weight (100# plus) of some sort to the end and let it hang (without spinning) overnight.

If it’s actually stretched “a couple of inches” since you got it (doubt it if you’ve only added 20 twists), then you have a piece of junk there.
It was advertised as fast flight, now I guess someone could falsely advertise that, but it also gave a 10-15 fps increase, so it ought to be fast flight. Also sounds sharper and felt snappier and more lively. It's fast flight.
I can deal with it and adjust the brace height as long as I can look forward to it settling someday. The one I had years ago broke eventually though, and it never stopped stretching. Don't want that happening again. Thankfully the arrow took some of that energy and it broke during release and not at draw, the arrow was visibly slow and probably only went 100 fps but it was better than a full on dry fire. Not to mention, if it breaks during draw it seems that would be a really good way to bust yourself in the face.

I say a couple of inches because four twists is about .25". And I am not counting the first day twists where it stretched in a hurry for a while. I never documented the brace height measurements and adjustments, I am going by memory.
 

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I’ve made a lot of FF flemish strings but never had an issue like that after the initial settling in. Now, Fastflight is not 100% creep-free like the materials people use on compound, so once in a while you will need to add a couple twists. But once the splices tighten down under tension, the BH should not change a lot.

Other problem areas could be uneven strand tension, although twisting usually takes care of that. Dumb question, but any chance you might be losing a couple twists when you take the string off? Make sure you aren’t untwisting it a bit accidentally.

Bottom line is, just add the twists as needed. Pretty rare for a string to just break on the shot (except Kevlar from the old days). You should see plenty of warning signs, like worn loops or broken strands.
 

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E -

If it keeps "stretching" (actually you're describing creep, not stretch), the splice is slipping.
And btw, if 4 twists makes a difference, either the string already has too many twists or you're misreading something.

Assuming your data is correct, just get a new string.

Viper1 out.
 

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Corripe Cervisiam
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Yeah, Dump that string.

I make my strings and prestretch with a ratchet strap....I figure its about 200# pressure.

My 12 strand BCY-X continuous loop strings hardly stretch at all after 20 shots.

______
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I’ve made a lot of FF flemish strings but never had an issue like that after the initial settling in. Now, Fastflight is not 100% creep-free like the materials people use on compound, so once in a while you will need to add a couple twists. But once the splices tighten down under tension, the BH should not change a lot.

Other problem areas could be uneven strand tension, although twisting usually takes care of that. Dumb question, but any chance you might be losing a couple twists when you take the string off? Make sure you aren’t untwisting it a bit accidentally.

Bottom line is, just add the twists as needed. Pretty rare for a string to just break on the shot (except Kevlar from the old days). You should see plenty of warning signs, like worn loops or broken strands.
I definitely don't lose twists, I unstring by slipping the large upper loop over the limb.


E -

If it keeps "stretching" (actually you're describing creep, not stretch), the splice is slipping.
And btw, if 4 twists makes a difference, either the string already has too many twists or you're misreading something.

Assuming your data is correct, just get a new string.

Viper1 out.
Last time I adjusted from somewhere near 7.25" back to 7.5" where I want it was three 360 degree twists. It can be two to four, it depends on when I re-adjust. Overall right now it's probably roughly four full twists per .25". I think on the first day I added six (but maybe nine cannot remember) twists and it felt like it was done moving, but since then it started moving again and it's been a pretty regular thing now.
I will give it just a little longer but I think you're right. I wonder why my splice would be slipping though. Crazy but I wonder if it's possible if an already thin string wax would get too thin in the hot sun and work like a lubrication. The wax I am using is thin and goes on very easy. More likely the maker just didn't splice them good enough from the get go.
 

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I've always had creep in FT strings. I check my BH at least once a week and adjust anything 1/8" or so back to my personal optimum setting.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 

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If it is creep causing the problem, why not think outside the box a little. Stop the creep by serving the loops for a couple of inches. Call it a hybrid string and move on with life.
 

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E -

The splice is slipping because it was poorly made. Even a "good" string maker can have a bad day.
One reason why I'll never use a Flemish Splice on a bow I'm shooting seriously.

And 4 twists per .25" is way too much. One twist per inch is about as far as I'll go.

Viper1 out.
 

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And 4 twists per .25" is way too much. One twist per inch is about as far as I'll go.
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Holy Mother of God, yessir!

Some string makers rely on twisting up like crazy to get to desired length, either because they don't understand their process well enough to get to a target length otherwise, or because they don't make the splices well enough to hold without a stupid amount of twisting, or simply believe because they've been told by 'reliable' sources that the splices need that much rotation to hold.

FF+ will creep more than other modern materials, but nowhere near what you're describing. I have a FF+ flemish twist string that settled into my wife's Bear Kodiak Magnum that has not significantly changed brace height with one rotation every 2", having been strung literally for cumulative years.
 

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No, what I mean is if I twist it four times the brace height will raise about .25".
What is the twist rate, rotations per distance, and how long are the end loops, and what did they used to be, if you know? If your nocking point has shifted in relation to square, that would certainly be an indication of the loop slipping.

It may also be that the string maker never 'pre-stretched' the string to settle the fibers to get it to finished length. A lot of makers don't. That seems to happen a lot. I'm guessing because it takes time. When I make strings, I can 'gain' as much as 4 inches from 'just spun up' until after squeezing it out, burnishing and flossing it clean on the stretcher, which takes not an insubstantial amount of time. That end of the process is how I decided that hand making bowstrings to my standards was a lousy way to make money.

Granted, the first couple inches comes out really fast. But if the string 'creeps' a couple inches, that's a lot of twisting, and if a 'delivered' string requires more than one twist per inch to get to the desired brace height, I'd just start over. If I delivered it and it 'settled' that quickly, such that they had to keep putting twists in it, and within a few months needed more than one twist per inch, I'd just give them a new one and apologize. If they had it a year, and it settled to one rotation every .75" and stopped, and most of the twisting was because they needed a shorter string than they told me to get their target brace height, I'm okay with them using it. At one rotation every 1/2", IMO, string is done.
 

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I never made a string and was about to get a Flemish jig from a buddy. I just read all the reasons not to bother.
Nick
 

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I never made a string and was about to get a Flemish jig from a buddy. I just read all the reasons not to bother.
Nick
There is one reason why may or may not overcome the reasons to why not. If you like them, either in actual making, or looking at them. They CAN be made very well, but the effort required, and the learning curve to get there, is substantial.

I sure wouldn't suggest getting into making them to save money. Any manufacturer of quality compound bow strings can get you a very good endless loop string for very reasonable prices, you can choose colors and materials without investing in whole spools of material, they will stretch them out with over 300 pounds of constant, hydraulic pressure, and endless loop strings tend to require less settling of strands into wax from the beginning.
 

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Yeah, I went through that phase too. Nice to look at, but aside from “authenticity”, the good old endless loop is easier to make (and cheaper to buy) and easier to get precise.
 

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Yeah, I went through that phase too. Nice to look at, but aside from “authenticity”, the good old endless loop is easier to make (and cheaper to buy) and easier to get precise.
Agreed^

I wrap the end of my strings with wool down to where it contact the limbs anyway...so you really can't tell my strings are endless loop.
 

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Yeah, I went through that phase too. Nice to look at, but aside from “authenticity”, the good old endless loop is easier to make (and cheaper to buy) and easier to get precise.
That about covers my thought process. I enjoy doing everything myself until it’s not enjoyable.
Nick
 

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My experience in FT strings are quieter.
They do require some attention but I prefer them.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 
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