I do not see much threads on this anymore. How many bows are capable of shooting a 450 grain arrow 200 fps or faster? It's almost like we are plateauing on speed. The fastest I know are Border, Morrison, Palmer, and ACS,
Shotkizer
I would surmise that it boils down to two issues:
1) Availability of bows to test and people to test them. I do a lot of bow testing but I can only test what I can get my hands on. I accept and process data from others, which helps expand my database. In the end, this is a smaller market than compound and testing resources are limited.
2) Speed has become less of an issue. Shootability is taking on greater importance. Border pushed the envelop on speed with the super recurves. But what is often neglected is the increase in shootability that accompanied the change. Ultimately, you measure performance by outcome, so speed alone is not going to get you there. Maybe we have matured beyond just looking at speed. I used to shoot a bow that clocked about 205. I have not yet tested my current bow but I would expect that it is somewhere in the 160 to 170 range. I shoot the slower bow because it meets the needs of the format that I am shooting better than the faster bow. There are definitely situations where I would go back to the faster bow.
My testing has been suspended for a little while. I need to retrofit some of my equipment. I am still processing data though I am behind on that. Normally, I provide same day service. I have one bow in queue that I have to process today. Injury and illness put me behind. I have not been posting most of the private testing but the results do go into my database for the creation of peer groups for comparisons.
1) Availability of bows to test and people to test them. I do a lot of bow testing but I can only test what I can get my hands on. I accept and process data from others, which helps expand my database. In the end, this is a smaller market than compound and testing resources are limited.
2) Speed has become less of an issue. Shootability is taking on greater importance. Border pushed the envelop on speed with the super recurves. But what is often neglected is the increase in shootability that accompanied the change. Ultimately, you measure performance by outcome, so speed alone is not going to get you there. Maybe we have matured beyond just looking at speed. I used to shoot a bow that clocked about 205. I have not yet tested my current bow but I would expect that it is somewhere in the 160 to 170 range. I shoot the slower bow because it meets the needs of the format that I am shooting better than the faster bow. There are definitely situations where I would go back to the faster bow.
My testing has been suspended for a little while. I need to retrofit some of my equipment. I am still processing data though I am behind on that. Normally, I provide same day service. I have one bow in queue that I have to process today. Injury and illness put me behind. I have not been posting most of the private testing but the results do go into my database for the creation of peer groups for comparisons.
You can get a 100 to 120 lb recurve if you want to match the world record,,, but you'ld be challanged to get a full draw on it.
Speed is not factor in my world since shot placement trumps the above.
Rainbow arrows are better in the area that I harvest in as it keeps them out of the weeds when there in transit.
Up and over.
Good luck on finding what works.
Don
Speed is not factor in my world since shot placement trumps the above.
Rainbow arrows are better in the area that I harvest in as it keeps them out of the weeds when there in transit.
Up and over.
Good luck on finding what works.
Don
I like bows that throw heavier arrows hard
Super recurves excel in this area
My hunting sr’s are shooting 10 gpp @ 200 FPS
Super recurves excel in this area
My hunting sr’s are shooting 10 gpp @ 200 FPS
I have Max 4’s, had Border 6’s, I’m on the list for the Hex 8 ILFs. I’ve never actually checked my arrow speed. Like Joe my SR ILF push a 10 gpp arrow a heck of a lot faster than any of my my longbows or other recurves will. I’m a hunter, so shoot-ability trumps speed. Thankfully my SRs (really looking forward to the Hex 8’s) are the best of both worlds.
It's a low priority for me, I have a 27.5" draw, you can give me the fastest Recurve in the world, I still won't shoot faster than a guy with 30" draw and a good quality limb.
If you have money to burn by all means buy any of these brands that are know for speed limbs but I have to ask why in top level world Archery Barebow don't you see any of these speed limbs being used?
If you have money to burn by all means buy any of these brands that are know for speed limbs but I have to ask why in top level world Archery Barebow don't you see any of these speed limbs being used?
beside DL u guys are emphasizing
what kinda string they are using is also important, but basically all Bodnik bows in recent years use their inhouse Bodnik Whisper String, so that eliminate another variability.
I dont work for bearpaw, I post this for the love of their products due to personal experience, I do buy a lot from them.
U may trust or not trust the result, like or not like the bow length or design, but it is what it is.
Its not meaningless.
what kinda string they are using is also important, but basically all Bodnik bows in recent years use their inhouse Bodnik Whisper String, so that eliminate another variability.
I dont work for bearpaw, I post this for the love of their products due to personal experience, I do buy a lot from them.
U may trust or not trust the result, like or not like the bow length or design, but it is what it is.
Its not meaningless.
Pete ward did a review of the Redman and his 50#@28" with a 424 gr arrow was in the low 180s if I read correctly.
Super recurves are the "fastest" out there. I should say they put more energy into an arrow. But if you want fastest there are some limbs out there with no minimum gpp and you can get some very impressive speeds with them.
Super recurves are the "fastest" out there. I should say they put more energy into an arrow. But if you want fastest there are some limbs out there with no minimum gpp and you can get some very impressive speeds with them.
Guys -
I like speed, but there's part of an old pilot's saying that speed is only a problem is you don't have enough.
I've found that most people's shooting improves when they stop worrying about things that just don't matter. Speed and 99.9% of the other "equipment" stuff we keep talking about fall into that category.
Mr. Morley -
Re X10's: for most people who actually know what they are doing, ACE's are a better choice, whether bare bow or not.
The are lighter, and have specs that most people can't fully utilize.
Viper1 out.
I like speed, but there's part of an old pilot's saying that speed is only a problem is you don't have enough.
I've found that most people's shooting improves when they stop worrying about things that just don't matter. Speed and 99.9% of the other "equipment" stuff we keep talking about fall into that category.
Mr. Morley -
Ah, yeah, but it ain't just bare bow.
Re X10's: for most people who actually know what they are doing, ACE's are a better choice, whether bare bow or not.
The are lighter, and have specs that most people can't fully utilize.
Viper1 out.
FWIW?...I own a "really fast" recurve but I prefer to think of it as a "really powerful" recurve because anything over 200fps?...and I start feeling like I'm shooting a strung rat trap.
At my DL my really powerful recurve will throw 7.1gpp arrows 215fps....9.7gpp arrows 198fps...12.5gpp arrows 180fps...13.8gpp at 168fps and lastly?...16.8gpp at 158fps.
I never shoot the 7.1gpp/215fps arrows and I only shoot the 9.7gpp/198fps arrows in long distance competition such as 60yd/50yd/40yd 900rds.
The 12.5gpp/180fps are my 3D arrows cause it seems I can wrap my head around 180fps arrows pretty good for unknown distance events where any faster than that?...and not so much.
If I ever do go hunting again it will be with the 16.8gpp/158fps arrows but I have little need (or use) for speed.
At my DL my really powerful recurve will throw 7.1gpp arrows 215fps....9.7gpp arrows 198fps...12.5gpp arrows 180fps...13.8gpp at 168fps and lastly?...16.8gpp at 158fps.
I never shoot the 7.1gpp/215fps arrows and I only shoot the 9.7gpp/198fps arrows in long distance competition such as 60yd/50yd/40yd 900rds.
The 12.5gpp/180fps are my 3D arrows cause it seems I can wrap my head around 180fps arrows pretty good for unknown distance events where any faster than that?...and not so much.
If I ever do go hunting again it will be with the 16.8gpp/158fps arrows but I have little need (or use) for speed.
I agree with Jinks
For me I shoot big heavy bodied animals at bad angles
I like fairly heavy arrows
The bows I choose give me the added juice I want and I can even go lighter than I did in years past and get the same type of performance I was getting with bows 20%+/- heavier
I know I can shoot a 50 pound bow better than a 60 pound bow most days and I ain’t getting any younger
With that said I know you can get adequate penetration with light Well tuned rigs but I like have the power to take hard angles and get arrows out the other side
This arrow was buried and only the opposing shoulder stopped it
I would of liked it to come through
The deer I’m holding here was shot with an old Fedora 560 on a deer drive and I shot him through the shoulder. The bow was 65 pounds and was fast for its time
So it ain’t about speed for me it’s about when things go wrong
For me I shoot big heavy bodied animals at bad angles
I like fairly heavy arrows
The bows I choose give me the added juice I want and I can even go lighter than I did in years past and get the same type of performance I was getting with bows 20%+/- heavier
I know I can shoot a 50 pound bow better than a 60 pound bow most days and I ain’t getting any younger
With that said I know you can get adequate penetration with light Well tuned rigs but I like have the power to take hard angles and get arrows out the other side
This arrow was buried and only the opposing shoulder stopped it
I would of liked it to come through
The deer I’m holding here was shot with an old Fedora 560 on a deer drive and I shot him through the shoulder. The bow was 65 pounds and was fast for its time
So it ain’t about speed for me it’s about when things go wrong
Funny Buddy
As you know when they are broadside and ya poke um through the ribs anything goes through
It’s when the angles and the bones get in the way there is problems
As you know when they are broadside and ya poke um through the ribs anything goes through
It’s when the angles and the bones get in the way there is problems
To me, speed shows the potential of a bow. I like a bow that can throw a +/- 10 gpp arrow as fast as possible. I can get more speed by going lighter but I think that I am now cutting into penetration via momentum. Some folks couldn't care less what their bows shoot so far as arrow speed. Others seem to chase the last few fps.
Each of us must find our own happy median of speed vs arrow weight
Each of us must find our own happy median of speed vs arrow weight
Seconded on anything Pete Ward does, great reviews, lots of information. Very accurate!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The real difference between a fast recurve and the fastest recurve at hunting arrow weights is at most 10 fps. That maybe 5% additional speed it's going to matter past 25 yards where hunting weight arrows start to drop significantly. The additional energy is good but the SR have other issues, like accuracy and noise. Just like wheelie bows it's good to give up a bit of ultimate speed to have a quiet and accurate bow. Also if you have a longer draw length you are already at a speed/performance advantage.
I've killed 2 bull caribou, 3 hogs and a few large whitetails shooting 50# at 26" draw with complete penetration every time (except for one front shoulder hit). This is with bows by Palmer, ILF limbs by Tradtech and Uukha. My fastest setup is 180 fps with a 515 grn high FOC arrow with my Uukha UX100 evo2 curve limbs, which are a bit more recurve but not a full on SR.
The problem with SR by Border is they have gone past the point of benefit so it's really just a marketing tactic to get you to buy a new bow every few years. Those big hooks lead to unstable limbs that act like noodles during and after the shot. That's why they hum. Take a 200 fps slowmo video and you'll be surprise how much they wiggle. All that for maybe 10 fps?
The last big buck I shot and the arrow:
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I've killed 2 bull caribou, 3 hogs and a few large whitetails shooting 50# at 26" draw with complete penetration every time (except for one front shoulder hit). This is with bows by Palmer, ILF limbs by Tradtech and Uukha. My fastest setup is 180 fps with a 515 grn high FOC arrow with my Uukha UX100 evo2 curve limbs, which are a bit more recurve but not a full on SR.
The problem with SR by Border is they have gone past the point of benefit so it's really just a marketing tactic to get you to buy a new bow every few years. Those big hooks lead to unstable limbs that act like noodles during and after the shot. That's why they hum. Take a 200 fps slowmo video and you'll be surprise how much they wiggle. All that for maybe 10 fps?
The last big buck I shot and the arrow:
Theres more to the SR than 10fps and the comments about them being unstable/inaccurate are nonsense. Yes they move around post shot as the portion that isnt supported by the string dissipate energy, but they are extremely accurate. I shoot on the line with plenty of conventional limbs and they smack and flop like a fish out of water on a riser with heavy barebow weights while mine with SR is super quiet.
I agree that it is not all about speed with super recurves. I have all the speed I need. I get two things from an SR: 1) the soft back end which makes expansion easier; 2) a longer string which improves the balance of my bow while stringwalking.
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