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Discussion Starter #1
Today we were having a discussion about anchor points following a Field round and the question came up if it is better to use the same anchor point (say between the knuckles of the index and second finger) and just raise your face to center the peep for the long shots or if it is better to actually move your anchor up or down on your face to center the scope in the peep.
The general consensus was that it is better set your peep height to be perfect at 50 yards, keep the anchor constant, and just tilt your face a little to center the scope in the peep for the shorter shots. What have you found to work best for the wide variety of shots (11 yds-80 yds) you encounter in Field rounds????
 

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I leave it set for about 40 yards, and "snuggle" in to center..................ck
 

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Jay,
A solid anchor is highly overrated. I shot for years with no face contact at all and was in the '40's and an occasional 50. As long as you line up the peep and sight and target, being tight on you face doesn't help that much, in fact in my case it inhibits me from keeping my shot in line through the follow through. Frank Pearson demonstrates it well by floating his anchor all over the place and still shooting X's.
I'm too shakey to be able to float like that anymore but it can be pretty effective and peep placement problems disappear, since you're floating anyway. Try an anchor with just a light contact of the string on your cheek and very little hand contact, if any. You may be surprised at how your line improves.
Joe B.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Joe

I was hoping for some input from some of the better Field Archers. It would seem that it is important to do whatever anchor (light touch floating) or solid to the face, the same way each time when sighting in to make a sight tape.
Today I was letting my anchor float a little to center the scope in the peep and it was causing the groups to move high right about 3" at 60 yds.
Jay
 

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Jay,
The alignment of the sights is the most important factor. As long as you're shooting groups you can move them to the center with windage and indicator changes to correct the offsets your new anchor may have caused. Once you settled into the new position should be consistent. The fact that you can see groups indicates to me that your sight alignment is good from shot to shot.
Joe B.
 

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"better to use the same anchor point (say between the knuckles of the index and second finger) and just raise your face to center the peep for the long shots or if it is better to actually move your anchor up or down on your face to center the scope in the peep."

The problem is that you change the angle of your head/neck and that tends to cause inaccuracy. You are better off learning how to be comfortable with a floating anchor point. If you are a short draw archer with a lower draw weight, the anchor variance can be considerable with longer distances- so the amount of head tilt would likewise increase. If you do a lot of indoor or short distance shooting you get used to that solid anchor point - but it just takes some time to get comfortable with a floating anchor point..

...if you do a search, I think there was a long thread on this a while ago. If I remember right Field14 contributed some long posts of insight on that thread...

Have fun,

-CG
 

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I have been shooting a light to the face floating anchor since 1959.

My peep sight is my anchor and I draw it to my eye...I don't move my eye to it.
 

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I adjust my peep so it is a solid fit at 45 yards and maintain my head position consistently. Changing head positions causes alignment problems and inaccuracy results. This enables me to be comfortable all the way from 20 yards to 70 yards and make very minor adjustments for the shorter shot or the 80.

I don't believe in tilting the head under any circumstance to achieve my form. Although it works for Joe, I also don't recommend floating your anchor. I find that solid contact with my anchor point/hand leads to a more solid hold/aim.
 

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I see Joe's point...and if things are consistent and PRACTICED, then it is a moot point...because duplication of the same thing every time is the key to great shooting!

However, I've always used a different peep height outdoors as opposed to indoors with every bow I've ever shot...but I set my peep at 50 yards outdoors, and then go for a good anchor indoors.....the change?

Nothing serious, really...only 2mm LOWER for my peep height outdoors is all, but the difference shows FOR ME in my consistency and ease of shooting on the longer targets....I'm like Joe...I'm way to shakey nowadaze to float that anchor much at all....

Way back, in days of old, when archers were bold...there was a proponent of a FLOATING ANCHOR that went with the "more is better" philosophy so prevalent in TODAY'S archery venues......

The name: Milan Ellott. He rand the archery college in Atlanta Georgia....his students used LONG ROPES on their rope spike releases, and their anchors floated to the point that many students were shooting with their anchors down on....now get this.....down on.....now read this.....down on, way down low...floating with light string contact on the face and the SOLID PART of the anchor....way down low....on the.....



COLLAR BONE! Yes, you read it right...the COLLAR BONE anchor point! MANY, MANY of Milan Ellott's students shot very well indeed with that particular style of anchor....but recall...many were shooting recurves with releases, and then LONG ATA....49" or MORE...many at 56" ATA...so they had a very straight up string angle.

Don't know if a person could anchor quite that low these days what with the super short ATA bows we are being forced to shoot....

Just thought I'd pass along some history.....and you can look at the pics for the proof of the pudding...and you think SOME people "float" their anchors???

Oh, Milan Ellott also was noted for his shooting of the BLACK WIDOW recurve complete with BRIDGED aluminum riser! They weren't CNC and machined risers...but they were BRIDGED...circa a la 1972. This pic was from 1974 or 1975...but the bow he is holding is a Black Widow recurve with the bridged riser...what a great shooting bow that was. My wife shot one, and shot super well with it....quiet, fast, stable, and reliable.

Oh, and NOTICE where the bridging is in relation to the limbs....UP FRONT...NOT in the back...HMMMMMMMMMM>>>>>>were they on to something way back then?

field14
 

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My primer and perhaps the best instructional book ever on archery was written by LTC Ellot. "Why we Miss" was an interesting study on archery as it was written not as a how to, but rather as a how not to.

I suspect I read that book 50 times and it was virtually my only instruction on archery technique. I still have it hidden away somewhere. Tom's thread may cause me to find it and re-read it once again.

By the way, that picture looked like John Williams (the olympic J. Williams). Was it?
 

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Dad nab it, RSW.....I believe you are correct...AGAIN...what a memory you have!

I'm pretty sure that it is John Williams....

Here is another interesting picture you will immediately recognize..

But NOTICE the "winning form" of this shooter! Today, we wouldn't be caught dead shooting in this position..but back then, this shooter was nearly unbeatable on a field course....

Then, there is yours truly with his shoot thru compound I built that same year, with the help of Jim Sweeney of Sacremento, CA...after having switched to release aid (home-built rope spike).

That grip on this bow is mounted on a ball bearing, and it was turned on a lathe so that the grip was in an even position no matter what...notice the form is similar to Kramer's...most all of us shot with a low head and high bow shoulder and level release arm back then. The release aid is a home-made rope-spike made out of a block of clear plexiglas...the spike is a 16 penny nail pressed thru a hole in the plexiglas then bent and polished with emory cloth right on down in grit to tooth paste and a crocus cloth to a chromy type finish...custom fit to my fingers...oh, those were the days.

The "Cropped" is yours truly shooting his Golden Eagle recurve, left handed with fingers...that particular evening, I shot a 300 in league...right after practicing there in the yard and scoring a 299...with a miserable kiss out...the 5-spot target was years away...as was the X-ring.

And the last pic is the famous, or it is INFAMOUS....."Super Chicken" release aid....first finger concho model.....it was a fun one to shoot...but it worked just fine.

Notice especially the exhorbitant price of this release aid....

field14
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Anchor

Had another good suggestion yesterday that made sense. One guy said that since almost everyone uses a computer generated sight tape (AA, etc.), to just look at your sight tape, set the pointer in the middle of the tape and set your peep to be perfectly comfortable with your anchor. Won't have to make any excessive adjustment to move to either end of your tape. I looked at the tape on my bow and the mid point was almost 50 yards. The max distance I can shoot in my back yard is 34 yards and I had set my peep at that distance which I think is what was causing the problem on the longer targets. Won't have the opportunity to resight in before the round tomorrow.
Wonder if I could set the peep at 50 yards at the practice butts and just move my pointer to be on at 50 and the rest of the marks would still be good?

Jbird
 

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It might work, but when you adjust the peep, it very slightly changes the geometry of your sighting system. Give it a try and report the results for general interest. It might be slightly out for the 80 and birdie targets, but most likely will be so close for the other marks that you might not notice a change.
 

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Tom:

I don't recall the Chicken release, but it looks almost like a JC which is what Lancaster shot for years and used to win all of his big shoots. I recall that he won the first big money outdoor shoot over in Hawaii about the time of that picture. I'll bet a lot of 3D shooters wish they could imitate that draw length! Jack, who lived in CO Springs then, Jon Willig, and I had many a knock down drag out field shoot back in the 70s here in CO. There were a lot of great shooters around here then with Gene Parnell, Gary Lampshire, Ivan Winder, Keith Barner, Bill Rucker, the Colombos, etc and we had several big money shoots in the region then.

Oh for the good old days again!

A funny story: Jack and I were tied up with three targets to go at the Rocky Mountain Archery Association field tournament. Jack had just gotten a brand new Barner release (the first real high quality mechanical release built) and was shooting it quite well. I think we were both down 1 point at the time and we were on the 65 yard target. I had finished shooting a 20 and Jack had one shot left. Of course, having shot the JC for years, he had to use a command release, but that didn't work so well with the trigger. At any rate, he punched it pretty badly and the arrow completely missed the target. Jack just heaved that expensive new Barner out into the woods (which I later retrieved and used to shoot a lot of 560s afterwards).

He and I were great friends back then, but Jack quit shooting shortly after that and took up golf and I have lost contact with him.
 

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I'm with you guys who are suggesting the solid anchor. Imo, just easier to maintain the solid anchor more consistently than a floating anchor. I know personally that if my anchor is too loose at 80+ (i.e. 90m and 70m as well at the 80yd on the NFAA) my accuracy suffers. In fact, I have so many problems staying consistent on the longer distances if my anchor is too loose that I am probably sighted in to center up closer to 60yd than I am 50yd. I don't mind the "scrunched" up anchor for closer distances just because I still have the solid anchor on my jawline. But if too loose on longer distances I really notice my groups open up.

I know floating anchors were once the norm - used to shoot that way myself when I was much younger - but I contend that that was back in the day when kissers, touching the string to the nose, longer ATA bows, and non-solid walled cams with huge valleys were also the norm. Didn't have to worry so much about not being anchored in the same position or even drawn back as far from shot to shot because the huge valley, etc. allowed from some minor discrepancies from shot to shot. Just my hunches though.......:)

>>------->
 

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Here is what I do. Every spring when I go outside to tune my field bow. I first go to 60yds and set my peep height so that I am comfortable at that distance.

At the shorter distances such as 20 and 15 I may feel a little crunched but not much. At 80yds, I still feel relaxed and not like I am floating. My anchor is solid and comfortable leading to consistancy at the longer distances and also the mid distances.
 

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RSW,
I remember the Rocky Mountain Regionals! I Won the Championship in 1970 up at Casper Mountain, shooting my White Wing bow with fingers, and our Red Arrow Archer's Team won the team event.

I remember all of those folks you talked about...especially Gene Parnell and Ivan Winder...you forgot to mention Glenn Redd.....haha.

CHPro,

That is what amazes me with today's shooters getting such great scores...it is a testament to their PERFECTION in their form...they shoot HIGH letoff, which places little load on the string, so even slight errors are magnified....they shoot short ATA bows, which makes anchoring so much more critical....they shoot HARD WALLS with little to no valley, which means those bows must be TIMED to perfection...and there isn't any room for error.

The 'ad hype' claims that today's bows don't need "timed"...but we also know there is a huge DIFFERENCE between a "pie plate" at 20 yards, and being able to drill consistent BABY X's at 20 yards......depens upon your point of view and what you want.....hahahaha.

I agree with you...I'd rather be solid and super tight UP CLOSE and solid at the longer ones...my groups open up something terrible if the peep height is off even slightly...I can get away with some of it INDOORS, but outdoors, it is a disaster for ME....

field14
 
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