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Bad shot angles and open on impacts are issues. Shoot quality fixed heads and be done with the what ifs and maybe.
 
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The Impartial Archer
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Wow! that appears to be less than 40 yards from someone's building. So close yet so far away.
Take a close look at the deer's spine. The Occipital Bone: The Bone that Rests on Top of Your Spine. The one above the second rib is missing. That steep of an angle could easily have taken that bone off, caught one lung. I'm not a Rage fan. Have never shot one. I don't believe broadhead failure is the problem. I think shot placement was the real issue.
That' what I was going to say LOOK really close at the rib bones shoulder etc and look for nicks or chips or marks. See if you can figure it out.

Last having been doing this for 40+ years trust me when I say that wide mechanical heads (all else being equal) are going to penetrate less. That doesn't mean they are better or worse it's just the truth. These days people hate to hear the truth because it hurts their feelings..........lol

If you get a great hit the wider mechanicals can be GREAT even better than a fixed head.......they fly better and are more forgiving to shoot and help a lot of average not super committed bow hunter to kill a LOT of deer.....and on gut shots are plus because they create a bigger wound.

But most of my deer are taken like yours was. 25ft and 5- 15 yards. But unlike you I don't want them to be farther out lol.......I like them close.....just like that. But I groom my rig for close shots.........see what I'm getting at? Not that one is "better" or worse just better for the way I use it.

I use a heavier arrow, good penetrating fixed heads so that I can get a low exit even if I hit stubborn bone. I think one of the first posts after my original post was trying to act as if that doesn't matter but it does. Anyone thinking it doesn't is either dishonest or naive.

To be honest you still may never know if a broad choice would have made the difference but the differences are real........and you can groom your setup for they way you hunt and put the odds more in your favor. I literally cannot tell you how many deer I have shot in that exact situation and almost always get a pass through with the right head.

When I don't it's not normal and 9 times out of 10 when it happens I'm trying a new head (because I like to) and it's a Rage, Reaper or other big mechanical. Again they work and even have advantages but penetration is NOT one of them.
 

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I've been following this thread and I can for the life of me figure out how you can have over 20 inches of arrow inside a deer on a broadside shot and not have an exit. Simply not possible. Your picture of where you hit shows a high hit. Most likely above the spine through the back strap. It may have been due to the deer dropping and angling away from the bow sound as the arrow hit or possibly a slight deflection from the blades opening on the broadhead. We'll never know without video of the shot. But had the shot been in the ribcage, any broadhead would have killed the deer in a lot less than 800 yards.
 
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Bad shot angles and open on impacts are issues. Shoot quality fixed heads and be done with the what ifs and maybe.
Go take your biased opinion somewhere else. I've shot 100's of animals with Rage and angle shots and open on impact has NEVER been an issue. If you like shooting fixed, fine but Rage has done more devastation and killing the last 15 years than any other BH.
 

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Not all mechanicals are equal in penetration just as not all fixed blades are great penetrators. I have compared the Grim Reaper 1/38'' Razor Tip to Muzzy, Razorback 5 and thunderheads and can't see a 1'' difference in penetration depth in foam. I have been happy to give up that one inch at most of penetration to exit holes twice as big as Muzzy. The only time I haven't had a complete pass through in over 100 kills is when the Reaper buries in the offside shoulder. You guys can shoot what you want, and I'll continue to shoot what I like. ;)
 

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Go take your biased opinion somewhere else. I've shot 100's of animals with Rage and angle shots and open on impact has NEVER been an issue. If you like shooting fixed, fine but Rage has done more devastation and killing the last 15 years than any other BH.
Funny you feel your opinion is so highly regarded and mine is not. It is a known fact which penetrates best yet the fan boys are first to try and refute those facts. Carry on.
 

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I've been following this thread and I can for the life of me figure out how you can have over 20 inches of arrow inside a deer on a broadside shot and not have an exit. Simply not possible. Your picture of where you hit shows a high hit. Most likely above the spine through the back strap. It may have been due to the deer dropping and angling away from the bow sound as the arrow hit or possibly a slight deflection from the blades opening on the broadhead. We'll never know without video of the shot. But had the shot been in the ribcage, any broadhead would have killed the deer in a lot less than 800 yards.
When them big blades slap open with a lightish arrow on any sort of a steep angle it’s a guessing game to which way the arrow will deflect to.


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Actually, a field point penetrates better than most fixed but doesn't do the damage that is done by fixed. Same as most fixed don't do the damage that a mechanical does. Most bows today will get a full pass-through and then the rest is wasted on the dirt.
Just how much cutting surface does your open on impact have Jim?
 

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The Impartial Archer
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Not all mechanicals are equal in penetration just as not all fixed blades are great penetrators. I have compared the Grim Reaper 1/38'' Razor Tip to Muzzy, Razorback 5 and thunderheads and can't see a 1'' difference in penetration depth in foam. I have been happy to give up that one inch at most of penetration to exit holes twice as big as Muzzy. The only time I haven't had a complete pass through in over 100 kills is when the Reaper buries in the offside shoulder. You guys can shoot what you want, and I'll continue to shoot what I like. ;)
Cannot argue with that either.......that should be made clear also. I felt the Ramcats were pretty equal in penetration to the Grim Reapers I shot. They have a wide cut and that matters too.....many times it's not apples to apples like we pretend.
 

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Just how much cutting surface does your open on impact have Jim?
On impact, it opens up to 1 3/8''. Te blades are connected about 2'' behind the point. As the point goes through it stretches the flesh and hide into a cone shape which allows for huge exit holes. Here is an example of the exit hole on a 90 degree hit. hits on a 45 degree get way bigger. I've never had a hole like that ith my Muzzy.
20131029_142147.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #93
I do believe a fixed head would of made an exit hole mechanicals definetly lose alot of ke on impact especially hitting bone.. it wasnt a good shot to take with the equipment i was using definetly learned a valuable lesson i did get about 20" of penetration so i do believe the fixed would of went through and made tracking alot easier seeing where the arrow was in the deer i do feel the shot placement wasnt bad for that shot possible deflection occurred when it hit bone...its just really unfortunate i couldnt find someone with a dog i do believe if i could of had one for this i may of located sooner
 

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I will admit that I haven't tested any Rage, but the myth that all over the top mechanicals lose a lot of ke on impact is just that a myth. It takes only a few ounces of energy to open a 1 3/8'' Grim reaper Razor Tip. When shooting 50 or more pounds of ke how much could a few ounces cost the shot penetration?
That said, there has been a lot of information stated about this buck that simply doesn't make sense. 20'' of penetration with a Rage in the boiler room, is a dead deer in less than 100 yards. 4'' sticking out of the deer, doesn't add up unless you are shooting a 24'' arrow. If shooting a 24'' arrow what kind of ke or mo are you getting? Blaming it on a broadhead of any kind, and nobody will learn anything from the mistake. Sorry :(
 

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Go take your biased opinion somewhere else. I've shot 100's of animals with Rage and angle shots and open on impact has NEVER been an issue. If you like shooting fixed, fine but Rage has done more devastation and killing the last 15 years than any other BH.
To be fair you are both stating a biased opinion. Doesn’t make either of you more or less right. Both just stating opinions. However I gather from the tone that a quality fixed blade is the only claim that is ever made from Brad. Sorry. I don’t follow along that closely to what each individual states.
 

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Any well placed BH will kill a deer. Mechanicals have a bad taste in my mouth because I have heard guys say they shoot them because they could not get a fixed blade to group with field points. That tells me their bow is not tuned or they have very poor form (could also be a bad head). If your arrow fish tails or porpoises, your arrow will loose both speed and penetration. My first mechanical was a Rage 1st. generation. I had a personal problem with it. I shot Reapers for years, liked them a lot, but when rebuilt, my blades would not hold tight like from the factory. I shot RamCats for a while, they put an entrance hole like no other head. The skin would look like it had been pulled open, but they didn't fit my quiver well and I would end up bending the very tips. I have gone to Whicked Tricks and find no reason to switch again. I just like to take any variable I can out of my rig. But any head will kill a deer if hit right and shot out of a tuned bow.
Ches.
 

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Discussion Starter #97
Oh im not saying a well placed shot from either type will both have the same result but how could it even be argued that some mechanicals dont lose more ke on impact im not saying all mechanicals as i havent seen them all but when it comes to a rage hypodermic and a cut on contact fix blade the rage will definetly lose more ke on impact due to the fact it has a chisle point regardless if the blades open immediately its still first intial impact is with an unsharp object...by no means do i think that the rage are less effective ive killed many deer with them i just think in this situation and the shot that i took a fixed blade would of performed better i honestly feel i would of had an exit wound with a fixed head resulting in a better blood trail for that shot it doesnt mean i wont continue to use the rage i just wont take that steep angle shot with them anymore im sure people have taken steep angle shots with them and have had success its just something i won't risk again
 

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It's not the point on the rage or the open on impact that lessens the penetration much at all. It is the angle of the blades. They are on a chopping angle, when the blade itself is meant for more of a slicing angle. Take a steak knife and try to chop through the steak. It will not go very deep. Then slice the meat and it will go right through.


''i just wont take that steep angle shot with them anymore im sure people have taken steep angle shots with them and have had success its just something i won't risk again''


Everybody makes mistakes. When we learn from those mistakes, we become much better hunters. Now you are on your way to being a better hunter. (y)
 

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It’s insane to me some of you are saying to pass a 10-15yd broadside shot from a tree cause a broadhead can’t handle the angle. Sounds like the heads would do better in the trash.


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Discussion Starter #100
It’s insane to me some of you are saying to pass a 10-15yd broadside shot from a tree cause a broadhead can’t handle the angle. Sounds like the heads would do better in the trash.


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I typically hunt from 24-30ft high unless i can get good cover ill hunt lower so i prefer shots at 25-30yds from that height i know guys that hunt at that height and love 5-15yd shots but they purposely spine them im not into that
 
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