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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday I had my wife take a pic of me shooting and noticed that I was leaning back, so I thought my draw length was too long.

I shortened it last night, even went too short, and the pics show I'm still leaning back just as much. I put the draw length back as it was actually correct originally.

I can make myself stand up straight if I try to do it consciously at full draw, but it isn't nearly as stable. The bow feels much heavier like its pulling me down. This is a lightweight bow to start with and I took off the side bar so I only had 4 oz of weight and I still felt that way if I stood up straight.

I went into my shooting stance with no bow at all last night after I was done shooting and I noticed that I lean back exactly that way even with no bow in my hands.

Should I try to train through that or should embrace the fact that I shoot with a little bit of leaning back? I'm wondering if my physiology just works better with a little lean. I watched the video of Reo explaining his form, and what he describes regarding his form is exactly how I feel. When he talks about how it feels if he doesn't lean back it is exactly what I'm feeling. I don't lean back as much as he does, but I'm definitely not shooting the classic T form.

Is there some pot of gold waiting for me if I make myself stand up straight or should I just embrace my form as is?

D
 

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Your bow shoulder is likely compressed back and up. So when you stand up straight, the front shoulder isn't in a position of stability and that's why you feel the bow is so heavy.

Only you can answer if it'll be worth the work and effort to change.

What I can say is that I've worked recently with a multi time state champion that won titles leaning back and fighting his bow and we've got the lean corrected and his front shoulder corrected and he's shooting better now than ever before.

Is it worth it, to me yes. But is it easy to change, no. So you have to ask the personal question of is it worth it to you
 

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leaning back is usually the result of either too long of a drawlength (which enables your anchor to float) or allowing your front shoulder to creep up (which changes your drawlength). leaning back creates a body geometry that prevents your back muscles from working correctly and pulling through the shot.

take the time to fix it.

I suggest you download "Nuts N Bolts" pdf on this. Nuts N Bolts is a guru here on AT that has helped hundreds of guys, and he has put out a pdf (that's free, he also has a DVD) that will explain a lot more of this stuff than I just did.

good luck!

Todd
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Your bow shoulder is likely compressed back and up. So when you stand up straight, the front shoulder isn't in a position of stability and that's why you feel the bow is so heavy.

Only you can answer if it'll be worth the work and effort to change.

What I can say is that I've worked recently with a multi time state champion that won titles leaning back and fighting his bow and we've got the lean corrected and his front shoulder corrected and he's shooting better now than ever before.

Is it worth it, to me yes. But is it easy to change, no. So you have to ask the personal question of is it worth it to you
My bow shoulder is not up, I've spent some time lately working on using my scapula muscles to keep my bow shoulder down. The pics confirm I'm doing well there. It may or may not be compressed back though, that isn't something I've had much awareness of. Can you explain a little how I would know if it's compressed back and what I would do to correct it?

If I'm likely to ultimately shoot better for trying it, I'll do the work. I want to shoot the very best I can. I just wasn't sure if this is something I need to correct or accept.

D
 

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My bow shoulder is not up, I've spent some time lately working on using my scapula muscles to keep my bow shoulder down. The pics confirm I'm doing well there. It may or may not be compressed back though, that isn't something I've had much awareness of. Can you explain a little how I would know if it's compressed back and what I would do to correct it?

If I'm likely to ultimately shoot better for trying it, I'll do the work. I want to shoot the very best I can. I just wasn't sure if this is something I need to correct or accept.

D
Looking at the full bow arm positioning compared to the arrow is a good indicator. A bend in the arm at the shoulder compared to the arrow. Depending on how bad the lean is, it may be impossible, or very close to impossible, to not have the shoulder compressed. If you want, you can send me over a picture and I can see how things look and give references for you.
 

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Yesterday I had my wife take a pic of me shooting and noticed that I was leaning back, so I thought my draw length was too long.

I shortened it last night, even went too short, and the pics show I'm still leaning back just as much. I put the draw length back as it was actually correct originally.
I can make myself stand up straight if I try to do it consciously at full draw, but it isn't nearly as stable. The bow feels much heavier like its pulling me down. This is a lightweight bow to start with and I took off the side bar so I only had 4 oz of weight and I still felt that way if I stood up straight.

I went into my shooting stance with no bow at all last night after I was done shooting and I noticed that I lean back exactly that way even with no bow in my hands.
Should I try to train through that or should embrace the fact that I shoot with a little bit of leaning back? I'm wondering if my physiology just works better with a little lean. I watched the video of Reo explaining his form, and what he describes regarding his form is exactly how I feel. When he talks about how it feels if he doesn't lean back it is exactly what I'm feeling. I don't lean back as much as he does, but I'm definitely not shooting the classic T form.

Is there some pot of gold waiting for me if I make myself stand up straight or should I just embrace my form as is?

D
Leaning back doesn't always mean DL too long.

Interesting that you lean back without holding a bow... Brings out the doctor in me. That posture seems to be strongly ingrained in your "muscle memory." Any anatomic asymmetry - mild leg length discrepancy or scoliosis? Not hard to check for this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwV5_I7c3Qo

Can you post pics?
 

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go download "Nuts n Bolts" pdf. It will explain why not to lean back, and the ill effects of doing so WAY better than I.
 

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I think that some people shoot better when they lean back. The guys that shoot for a living lean back or some lean back. If they could shoot better standing straight they would probably stand straight.

Learn to stand straight and then experiment to see which way is best for you. If you never stand straight then you will never know if standing straight is good for you or not.

I know some that just can't stand straight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
No spine issues. My bow arm is a little longer than my drawing arm. No idea about my legs. I've read the N&B article several times and find it really helpful. This is more a question of should I go with the thing that feels natural or should I try to master the T form.

RCR_III and cbmac, you have pics via PM.

Thanks for the help guys.

D
 

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If you don't master the T form, how are you going to know which form is best for you.

I watched a lady compound shooter yesterday that leaned forward about 1 foot while drawing her bow and after she came to full draw she would stand up straight. Maybe you can try this and see if you end up standing straight. You can also stand with a tree against your draw shoulder to keep you from leaning back.

Once you shoot a while standing straight you may decide that you can't be accurate that way. But again until you try it you can't know.
 

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No spine issues. My bow arm is a little longer than my drawing arm. No idea about my legs. I've read the N&B article several times and find it really helpful. This is more a question of should I go with the thing that feels natural or should I try to master the T form.

RCR_III and cbmac, you have pics via PM.

Thanks for the help guys.

D
I'm with Jim P on this. If you are happy with your shooting, stay with what is comfortable. If you want to improve to the next level, experiment and go with the form which gives better scores.
 

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No one asked the question. You having a problem with how your shooting? If not why fix what ain't broke. There is no such thing as the perfect form, everyone has a slight difference on what works for them. Everyone mentions Reo, honestly look at his form and you can totally pick it apart on the what not to do but it works for him.
 

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If you are not one of the top shooters and you want to be a top shooter then your shooting is broke. If you are a top shooter, then you don't need my 2 cents worth. If you are just a hunter, then I have never seen any scoring rings on a deer, bear or other animal.
 

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No spine issues. My bow arm is a little longer than my drawing arm. No idea about my legs. I've read the N&B article several times and find it really helpful. This is more a question of should I go with the thing that feels natural or should I try to master the T form.

RCR_III and cbmac, you have pics via PM.

Thanks for the help guys.

D
You have to ask yourself if you're happy with your shooting. Every one uses Reo as an example to justify to themselves that it's okay to lean back when you shoot. However what they don't know is that Reo wasn't taught that way but "found" that form after years of trial and error. He found that he shoots best with that posture. Most that lean like that have done no experimenting but rather got there because they are lazy or they didn't know any better to begin with. If you're wanting to shoot better, you have to be willing to try new things. The same stuff you're doing now will get you the same things you're getting now. Don't be afraid to try new things and get different results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
No one asked the question. You having a problem with how your shooting? If not why fix what ain't broke. There is no such thing as the perfect form, everyone has a slight difference on what works for them. Everyone mentions Reo, honestly look at his form and you can totally pick it apart on the what not to do but it works for him.
I'm not happy with how I'm shooting. I'm not shooting poorly, I just know that I can do better.

It sounds like it's probably worth trying to shoot without the lean. If I ultimately find that I don't shoot as well without it, I'll go back to it. It sounds like it's at least worth a serious effort though.

I experimented with it more last night, and when I feel really awkward shooting without the lean it's because I've got too much weight on my front foot. If I keep the weight more balanced between my feet (slightly more on the rear foot seems best), and make the adjustment to straighten up at my hips, things feel much better.

I suspect that hip tendency may have something to do with my legs/stance. I'm going to play with adjusting how wide my feet are (and maybe having my front or rear foot extended more from center) and see if that makes it easier to get the right hip position to be straight up. Since my bow arm is a little longer than my drawing arm, it wouldn't surprise me if my legs are slightly different lengths too. That might push my hips into a position that makes me lean back with the stance I've been using.

Any tips or insight would be much appreciated.

Currently I'm just shooting local 3D shoots and hunting. I aspire to do more than that though, so I've got to continue improving my shooting.

D
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It's the draw weight thats got you leany not the length
About 2 years ago, I was shooting at 80lbs which was too much for me really. I'm at around 62 lbs now on a different bow because I wanted to be able to master my form without fighting a heavy bow. I'm pretty confident my lean has nothing to do with draw weight.

My lean isn't severe either. It's almost subtle, but I'm clearly leaning back just a little bit.

D
 
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