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What kind of a international Commie plot is this?
http://www.freep.com/sports/othersports/line18_20030818.htm

This article was in the Detroit Free Press Newspaper monday 18AUG03. Headline and 1st para. are below:

Archer bears bronzeless bronze finish

August 18, 2003


Glenn Meyers of Grand Rapids won a gold medal in team archery at the Pan American Games, and in the individual event he won a bronze that he wasn't allowed to collect. ....


Congratulations to Glenn for his great effort!

Greg
 

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" But Pan American Sports Organization rules prohibit one country from sweeping the medals in a single event. Although Meyers defeated Cristobal Merlos of El Salvador, 107-102, in the bronze-medal match, the bronze was presented to Merlos. . . " - Detroit Free Press

Seems a bit silly to me. How do you feel if you are Merlos? You got the medal, but only because a technicality displaced another competitor. And a purely political technicality at that.

Why don't they allow one country to sweep?

Scott
 

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The Rules of the pan am games is that no country can win all three medals in a single sport. This was mainly done to prevent USA sweeps in sports where we dominate such swimming and short distance track. Other games have the same rules-the asian games for example because without them the Koreans would sweep the archery and the Chinese most likely the table tennis.

This has been the rule for years at the PA games.
Maybe they would be better off just saying that only the top two from each nation could advance to the OR rounds.

Is it fair? well if the Olympics was run fairly, then the swimming events would basically be limited to Americans, Germans and Austalians because I suspect that the top 15 in each event comes from those nations and the marathon would have a ton of guys and gals from Kenya, not just three
 

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Our swim team is fairly strong. As for Kenya. The number of spots in the olympics is limited. So every team is probably only allowed to have so many. Even if they dominate. Good shooting.
Dylan
 

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Yes Dylan, spots are limited (I didnt know Canada was a swimming power-at the last olympics it seemed to be basically USA versus Australia but I didn't follow it all that closely) but they have quotas that allow some individuals to compete while excluding better athletes. There are plenty of kenyans who can beat anyone we have. Same with Korean archers compared to some of those who get into the Games. I can't think of a single archer in all of Africa who would make the top ten in Korea yet Africa gets some slots.
 

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I think in the case of Yun Mi Jin, they are hoping to create another Kim, Sun-Nyung.

The olympics is about heros, not so much domination. Good shooting.
Dylan
 

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What makes Korean archers so good? I thought the US used to dominate archery. What do they do differently?

Scott
 

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They have created a system of coaching which includes majors in physics, physiology, kinesiology and basic hard work. All of this is also "Cultivated" by the sharing of coaches ideas during team meetings every year. Our coaching systems pale compared to theres. Good shooting.
Dylan.
 

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Korea decided archery was a sport they could do well in since genetics and a deep gene pool is not as necessary as say more physically demanding sports such as basketball, track etc. They hired top coaches and put alot of money behind it. They also use methods that won't work in countries such as the USA-such as taking 600 kids and have them practice form for 6 months before allowing them to shoot a bow. In korea, that means that half the kids drop out but those who stay have no bad habits. If I ran a JOAD program that way, I would have no kids in 6 months. Their highschools support archery and so do the colleges. THose who rise to the top get good corporate jobs.

If we wanted to win in archery and if our major corporations wanted us to, we could dominate again. We do pretty well given that there aren't that many serious olympic archers in the USA and the support they get is minute compared to say what a LeBron James gets.

Dylan is also correct that there is a centralized system that stresses conformity and uses what works. For years you couldn't buy a LH korean bow-everyone shoots the same way. In this country we still debate whether you should concentrate on aiming or executing the shot.
 

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As Jim C said, the Pan Am games rule has been in effect for years, and every athlete knows it (or should know it). I myself have a Pan Am bronze medal from 1979 which should belong to Rick McKinney.

After the presentation I offered it to him (as did the Canadian woman who was presented the bronze that year to the US woman who really came in 3rd), but he graciously refused to accept it.
 

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Stash-good shooting nonetheless! DIdn't the Pan am games once award medals for each DISTANCE?
 

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I have never held any interest in sports before now, so the "no sweep" policy seems a little strange. It makes good sense now. I definitely do not think anyone who recieves a medal by such a rule is undeserving - it just seems a little awkward at first glance.

Scott
 
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absolutely...positively...has to be...

...run by FITA rules...is this correct???...

...piSTASHio...EXCELLENT jesture...as by the actual competition it was his Bronze medal...but after "invoking" the "rules"...it became yours...

...a gracious jesture indeed from Mr. McKinney:cool: ...

...that rule irregardless of where you hail...is nothing short of BOGUS:rolleyes: ...

...JIM C...what corporation wants to support a "lopsided" set of rules like those that make up this event...let alone "sponsor" a competitor that if winning a Bronze medal with 2 more of his/her countrymen...gets taken away...

...I think if LeBron James makes the points...they get counted...seems like a fair set of rules...maybe corporate sponsors are after Quality and Equality:) ...

...of course the Democratic party is kinda like FITA...and corporations still send boatloads of money to their causes!!...try that one on em:D ...maybe corporate is just looking for a tax write off!!...

>>>---DD--->;)
 

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Dondeere, I think you mean IOC or Pan American comitee. Not Fita. Fita doesn't make the rules for the pan am games. They are told the rules and then follow along.
Good shooting.
Dylan
 

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Dylan is right-FITA sure doesn't decide the swimming medals or the track medals and that rule applies to those sports too.
 
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Thanks for the insight...

...makes it even MORE special knowing the IOC or the PAN-AM committee makes these kinds of rules...

...wouldn't it be better if they just eliminated the medals all together and gave EVERYONE a participation ribbon and a certificate suitable for framing to take back home with them??...

...good info...Thanks for the enlightenment:) ...

>>>---DD--->;)
 

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I don't think that I would impliment it the same way, but this is my understanding of the rule:

In international competition, you are competing against other archers individually as your nation is competing against other nations. While the individual archers are making the shots, one can argue that the archers themselves are in turn made by their homelands.

In a very real sense, one nation's sweep of the medals amounts to one first place and no second place. In theory the spectators could sift through the scores to assign seconds and thirds, but in practice this doesn't work - aknowledgement needs to come in awards and medals. In order to acknowledge the next-place nation, the bronze medalist is bumped.

So an individual archer is cought up in policy for the sake of a larger view. From a western individualist point of view, this makes very little sense. However, there is solid and consistent logic to it. It is proper for the second place nation's efforts to be recognized. You have to look at it from a nationalist perspective.

I personally am more of an individualist, but there you go. It is an untidy remedy to an untidy problem.

Scott
 

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Jim C -

I believe that they did award medals for each distance at one time, but that was well after I was shooting. My games were the 1979 ones in Puerto Rico. I also have a team silver which was honestly earned.

If you ask the athletes who participated, I doubt if you will find the concern about this rule that the people here are expressing. The rule is there, everyone knows it, and if they don't like it, nobody's forcing them to compete.
 

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As Stash mentioned, it is just the Pan-Am Games Organizers decision. I don't think that the IOC has much to do with it beyond the fact that some (but not many) of the sports use the Pan-Am Games as a qualifying event (or one of the qualifying events) for the Olympics.

Considering that traditionally 3 countries take the majority of the medals (USA, Cuba, Canada - this year Brazil was a close 4th), the Pan-Am games are just trying to "level the field" a little with the distribution of medals. I honestly don't think the Pan-Am Games has much of a reputation as one of the "premiere" games anymore, partly due to the method by which they distribute awards ("normalized"), and partly due to the fact that the top countries don't usually even send their top teams anymore - its kind of the "junior team" games now. There were a number of athletes from various sports that dropped out of the Pan-Am's due to illness or injury because they wanted to save themselves for their sports Olympic Test event, or World/National events.

The Common Wealth Games are sort of falling the same way - as more countries focus sports $$$ on the OGs...

-CG
 
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