Does anyone have any pictures of their 20yd groups with a recurve? Just curious to see what are some good shots.
J.P.
J.P.
JPMotorsports3
Good recurve groups?
1 reading
JP -
This question comes up every so often. Let's face it, no one is going to post a picture of a bad group, most won't even post an average group. (Who would take a picture of an average group?) Most of use have shot 3 ot 5 arrow 1" groups at 30 yds and beyond, but the reality is, it doesn't happen often, and is mostly luck for barebow shooters. In the same vein, when somesome posts they average 3" groups at 20 yds, most of us disregard the post. Consistant 3" groups would make you a national or world champ.
That's one reason "A" group doesn't tell you much, and why we consider the NFAA indoor round, pretty much the gold standard or 20 yd accuracy. Shooting 60 arrows in 12 ends of 5 arrows each can give you an honest appraisal of your "group" size and shooting ability.
Now if you want tot tlak scores, that we can do!
Viper1 out.
This question comes up every so often. Let's face it, no one is going to post a picture of a bad group, most won't even post an average group. (Who would take a picture of an average group?) Most of use have shot 3 ot 5 arrow 1" groups at 30 yds and beyond, but the reality is, it doesn't happen often, and is mostly luck for barebow shooters. In the same vein, when somesome posts they average 3" groups at 20 yds, most of us disregard the post. Consistant 3" groups would make you a national or world champ.
That's one reason "A" group doesn't tell you much, and why we consider the NFAA indoor round, pretty much the gold standard or 20 yd accuracy. Shooting 60 arrows in 12 ends of 5 arrows each can give you an honest appraisal of your "group" size and shooting ability.
Now if you want tot tlak scores, that we can do!
Viper1 out.
I was just curious as to what was decent. With my competition compound, if Im not hitting 1" circles at 20 yards, I Know something is wrong. With my recurve, in the 2 days I have shot it, I can put 5 arrows in a 5" circle at 10 yards, and 4 out of 5 in an 8" circle at 20. However, coming from the compound stuff, I always look for tighter groups. Thanks for the input.
J.P.
J.P.
To respond to the OP (JPmotorsports3):
It doesn't matter what we do. Practice relative to your own goals and ambition. Try to do your best each time.
If I post here that I shoot the fletching off my arrows every time I shoot 20 yard groups, then you'd be working with my goals and not your own. And, maybe you can do that and maybe you never can.
Ultimately, your practice with a recurve (especially a barebow) is a contest between you and yourself.
It doesn't matter what we do. Practice relative to your own goals and ambition. Try to do your best each time.
If I post here that I shoot the fletching off my arrows every time I shoot 20 yard groups, then you'd be working with my goals and not your own. And, maybe you can do that and maybe you never can.
Ultimately, your practice with a recurve (especially a barebow) is a contest between you and yourself.
I'd like to make a point about concentration in instinctive shooting that is relavant here. The best shooters with traditional equipment in 3-D shoots (where longer periods of concentration and focus are necessary) are the folks who can continue to focus and concentrate over the time period. One thing you learn early on is that it takes practice, both physical and mental to get better and consistent in such a situation.
On the other hand, to hunt well you need to usually just make one shot, and make it count...and you need to "at will" draw on that ability to concentrate to a high level for the few seconds you are focusing for a shot. With practice most archers get to a "auto pilot" on shooting with the physical skills, but the mental focus is what enables you to really become a successful hunter. Reasonable practice will usually result in a fairly straight forward ability to shoot pretty consistently during practice.
When I was practicing in the past (and for that matter now too) I would get to a point where I was just plain tired and shooting sloppily...but right before I quit I would always summon all my concentration and focus and shoot one more arrow to prove to myself that I can do it when I need to. Usually, I was and still am successful with this intense effort and that is pretty much what I try to always maintain. I'm not so concerned with making 50 straight shots at a 3-D shoot as much as being able to make a decent shot when I have to... when hunting or just for reassurance whenever I really bear down and demand it from myself.
Just thinking out loud.
RB
On the other hand, to hunt well you need to usually just make one shot, and make it count...and you need to "at will" draw on that ability to concentrate to a high level for the few seconds you are focusing for a shot. With practice most archers get to a "auto pilot" on shooting with the physical skills, but the mental focus is what enables you to really become a successful hunter. Reasonable practice will usually result in a fairly straight forward ability to shoot pretty consistently during practice.
When I was practicing in the past (and for that matter now too) I would get to a point where I was just plain tired and shooting sloppily...but right before I quit I would always summon all my concentration and focus and shoot one more arrow to prove to myself that I can do it when I need to. Usually, I was and still am successful with this intense effort and that is pretty much what I try to always maintain. I'm not so concerned with making 50 straight shots at a 3-D shoot as much as being able to make a decent shot when I have to... when hunting or just for reassurance whenever I really bear down and demand it from myself.
Just thinking out loud.
RB
FL Archer & Hank...thanks. Ruffed grouse are a blast to hunt with a bow. Tastey too.
Hank, next time I run into you I've got to check out that portable string jig of yours again. I'm thinking about making one for myself.
Hank, next time I run into you I've got to check out that portable string jig of yours again. I'm thinking about making one for myself.
Jason --
This is the last one I built and like it the best. Its 1" square tubing slid into 1.25" tubing. All you have to do to make it fit is grind a groove in the 1" where the seam is inside the 1.25" tubing -- then it slides right in.
Sometimes I get up to Ohare to drop my girlfriend off, or pick her up and usually stop by Dan Jet's, but he smells funny sometimes. Could stop by one of these times. My girlfriend got a good deal to fly out of here over the holidays, so I will be stuck here this time.
This is the last one I built and like it the best. Its 1" square tubing slid into 1.25" tubing. All you have to do to make it fit is grind a groove in the 1" where the seam is inside the 1.25" tubing -- then it slides right in.
Sometimes I get up to Ohare to drop my girlfriend off, or pick her up and usually stop by Dan Jet's, but he smells funny sometimes. Could stop by one of these times. My girlfriend got a good deal to fly out of here over the holidays, so I will be stuck here this time.
Attachments
Viper1
What are the top scores in NFAA barebow you are talking about. That way EVERYONE knows exactly what world class is? Also can you tell us where to find one of those NFAA targets so we can TRUELY see how we shoot.
Seems to me sometimes people dont realize just how "good" they are able to shoot
thanks
citori
What are the top scores in NFAA barebow you are talking about. That way EVERYONE knows exactly what world class is? Also can you tell us where to find one of those NFAA targets so we can TRUELY see how we shoot.
Seems to me sometimes people dont realize just how "good" they are able to shoot
thanks
citori
Top scores...
You score a 280 or above, You are guaranteed in the top 3... in the nation and world.
Dwayne
You score a 280 or above, You are guaranteed in the top 3... in the nation and world.
Dwayne
the Targets are 40cm targets... Called Blue face or Black face targets.
If you want, you can print them off yourself from your computer.
I make them off my computer now... Using Corel Draw. Granted they don't have all 5 rings, but I only need the first 2, and sometimes (grrr) the third ring.
On a 8 x 11 paper, you can get most of the third ring, and all of the 1st and 2nd ring. the 4 and 5 ring you only get the top and bottom of them.
Dwayne
(I refer as the first ring the bullseye, not the one point ring, and count out from there)
If you want, you can print them off yourself from your computer.
I make them off my computer now... Using Corel Draw. Granted they don't have all 5 rings, but I only need the first 2, and sometimes (grrr) the third ring.
On a 8 x 11 paper, you can get most of the third ring, and all of the 1st and 2nd ring. the 4 and 5 ring you only get the top and bottom of them.
Dwayne
(I refer as the first ring the bullseye, not the one point ring, and count out from there)
The NFAA 5 spot target faces are availble from Lancaster Archery for 25 cents each:
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/sho..._info.php?cPath=53_250&products_id=1385&osCsid=bd4fb8da1fc8b8e07f2409922932ab53
The single large face is also available from them at the same price. The single face is what most of the traditional equipment shooters use at my club.
http://www.lancasterarchery.com/sho..._info.php?cPath=53_250&products_id=1385&osCsid=bd4fb8da1fc8b8e07f2409922932ab53
The single large face is also available from them at the same price. The single face is what most of the traditional equipment shooters use at my club.
The Target is a 5 ring target...
The center bullsye is approx 3 inches in diamter...
It is scored as 5 points.
The next ring (closest to the bullseye) is worth 4 points.
the next 3 points.
The next 2 points.
The last (and final ring) is worth 1 point.
If you are TOUCHING the LINE between two rings with your arrow, you score the HIGHER of thw two rings. (The REAL close ones are called "bottle Lickers" <g>)
Shoot 4 groups of 5 arrows (worth 100 points Maximum)
Shoot 2 more of these 4 groups of arrows (all together you have 300 possible points).
I like shooting in groups of 3, because each group is worth a Max of 100 points... and all 3 groups add up to 300 points.
Basically it is 60 arrows worth 5 points a piece. How you want to divide those 60 arrows up is up to you...
Dwayne
edit part...
I gave you a Target.wmf... With this file you can use your Windows program to print...
Choose the option Full Face "photo"... the 3 point rings will be cropped on the sides, but the demensions of the rings will be correct in size for 20 yard scoring.
The center bullsye is approx 3 inches in diamter...
It is scored as 5 points.
The next ring (closest to the bullseye) is worth 4 points.
the next 3 points.
The next 2 points.
The last (and final ring) is worth 1 point.
If you are TOUCHING the LINE between two rings with your arrow, you score the HIGHER of thw two rings. (The REAL close ones are called "bottle Lickers" <g>)
Shoot 4 groups of 5 arrows (worth 100 points Maximum)
Shoot 2 more of these 4 groups of arrows (all together you have 300 possible points).
I like shooting in groups of 3, because each group is worth a Max of 100 points... and all 3 groups add up to 300 points.
Basically it is 60 arrows worth 5 points a piece. How you want to divide those 60 arrows up is up to you...
Dwayne
edit part...
I gave you a Target.wmf... With this file you can use your Windows program to print...
Choose the option Full Face "photo"... the 3 point rings will be cropped on the sides, but the demensions of the rings will be correct in size for 20 yard scoring.
Hello Citori,
I believe Viper has scored a 280... I have scored every 270+ number there is... but I have yet to score a 280.
240 is considered not to bad... This means on the average all your arrows are in the 4 ring. This also means that 30 arrows can be in the Bullseye and 30 arrows in the 3 ring! <g>.
250 is harder to achieve. (duh)
And scoring higher is greatly exponentially harder. as you go higher in score.
Dwayne
I shoot barebow recurve... Viper does the same.
I believe Viper has scored a 280... I have scored every 270+ number there is... but I have yet to score a 280.
240 is considered not to bad... This means on the average all your arrows are in the 4 ring. This also means that 30 arrows can be in the Bullseye and 30 arrows in the 3 ring! <g>.
250 is harder to achieve. (duh)
And scoring higher is greatly exponentially harder. as you go higher in score.
Dwayne
Gents -
When I first replied to this thread, I said that a picture of a group was pretty meaningless. The purpose of the exercise, and the inherent value of shooting for score, is to remove "luck" from the equation. Shooting a single arrow dead center into a target or an animal means even less that a picture of a group. Even the worst archer is the world will hit what he's shooting at sooner or later. Shooting two, even three dead center can be a "hot streak" another term meaning luck. Now, shoot 60 arrows and take an average, that says a lot more, because (while not impossible) luck won't hold out that long. That's why shooting at paper and keeping score is a valid benchmark.
Back to reality.
The five spot target is pretty tough for most barebow shooters. It really does force a very tight focus, while having to change targets on every shot and there's very little room for error. Most good shooters will drop about 20 points when going to a 5 spot from a single spot.
Dwayne - BTW, I have a 280 and a 282 under my belt, BUT that was a long, long time ago. My best recent score (last year) was a 274 and that was way above my current average. Guess I must have been lucky that day.
Viper1 out.
When I first replied to this thread, I said that a picture of a group was pretty meaningless. The purpose of the exercise, and the inherent value of shooting for score, is to remove "luck" from the equation. Shooting a single arrow dead center into a target or an animal means even less that a picture of a group. Even the worst archer is the world will hit what he's shooting at sooner or later. Shooting two, even three dead center can be a "hot streak" another term meaning luck. Now, shoot 60 arrows and take an average, that says a lot more, because (while not impossible) luck won't hold out that long. That's why shooting at paper and keeping score is a valid benchmark.
Back to reality.
The five spot target is pretty tough for most barebow shooters. It really does force a very tight focus, while having to change targets on every shot and there's very little room for error. Most good shooters will drop about 20 points when going to a 5 spot from a single spot.
Dwayne - BTW, I have a 280 and a 282 under my belt, BUT that was a long, long time ago. My best recent score (last year) was a 274 and that was way above my current average. Guess I must have been lucky that day
. Viper1 out.
thanks Dwayne/viper
That will give a lot of guys something to think about.
I have never shot a NFAA round with a recurve/longbow barebow.....But spent a LOT of time shooting 5 spots with a wheel bow....
gonna have to try it with "trad" gear.
If I remember correctly in the past some guys mentioned things like 3" groups....that would be a 300!!!!!! I think that some may be a LITTLE optimistic
99.9% of wheel shooters CANNOT do this!!!! A 300 with ANY archery equipment you choose from selfbows-unlimited compounds is a GREAT accomplishment!!!
I also have a buddy that gives me the "I cant hit paper/clay birds/tagets perfect but put hair/feathers on it and it is meat"..... Gotta love this type statment
This response is not meant to make anyone mad or call anyone out......I have not seen any of you all shoot. If you are one of the elite handfull in the world who can shoot that well my hats off to you!!!! I just think that a lot of the time people are not really honest with themselves on their true ability with archery equipment.
thanks
citori
That will give a lot of guys something to think about.
I have never shot a NFAA round with a recurve/longbow barebow.....But spent a LOT of time shooting 5 spots with a wheel bow....
gonna have to try it with "trad" gear.
If I remember correctly in the past some guys mentioned things like 3" groups....that would be a 300!!!!!! I think that some may be a LITTLE optimistic
99.9% of wheel shooters CANNOT do this!!!! A 300 with ANY archery equipment you choose from selfbows-unlimited compounds is a GREAT accomplishment!!!
I also have a buddy that gives me the "I cant hit paper/clay birds/tagets perfect but put hair/feathers on it and it is meat".....
Gotta love this type statmentThis response is not meant to make anyone mad or call anyone out......I have not seen any of you all shoot. If you are one of the elite handfull in the world who can shoot that well my hats off to you!!!! I just think that a lot of the time people are not really honest with themselves on their true ability with archery equipment.
thanks
citori
Hello Citori,
There comments on their ability does not jive with the abilty to shoot such scores. It takes a lot of knowledge to tune a bow to score high. It is not just a simple "set the nock and go". A arrow rest is a huge improvement... Brace height is a huge difference. Arrow spine "can" be a huge difference.
And of course... like you say... some folks shoot a hell of a lot better than they think... And when you put them on Paper...if they score a 200, they are doing damn good!. But by golly... they can hit those stumps they are shooting at all the time! And those cans! (yeah sure)... Those cans??? I do not know about carbon, but those cans (aluminum cans that is) tear up aluminum arrows very badly...Bends them right out of shape... and that is with a 2315 to boot!
Vipers right... pictures of groups are worthless. Animals hanging with holes in them are worthless. Anyone can do a one shot luck. But paper starts to take away that "luck" factor, and bring reality into the picture. What about those "fliers"? they missed the animal, so lets not count that as a picture of a "kill". That miss is counted as zero when you score, and really hurts your average.
And by the way... shooting paper has proven to be more healthier for you... It has more "fiber" in it...
Dwayne
Citori, you can actually tell the ones who have shot in the 270's , 280's, 260's.... You can also tell the ones that *think* they shoot that high too...
There comments on their ability does not jive with the abilty to shoot such scores. It takes a lot of knowledge to tune a bow to score high. It is not just a simple "set the nock and go". A arrow rest is a huge improvement... Brace height is a huge difference. Arrow spine "can" be a huge difference.
And of course... like you say... some folks shoot a hell of a lot better than they think... And when you put them on Paper...if they score a 200, they are doing damn good!. But by golly... they can hit those stumps they are shooting at all the time! And those cans! (yeah sure)... Those cans??? I do not know about carbon, but those cans (aluminum cans that is) tear up aluminum arrows very badly...Bends them right out of shape... and that is with a 2315 to boot!
Vipers right... pictures of groups are worthless. Animals hanging with holes in them are worthless. Anyone can do a one shot luck. But paper starts to take away that "luck" factor, and bring reality into the picture. What about those "fliers"? they missed the animal, so lets not count that as a picture of a "kill". That miss is counted as zero when you score, and really hurts your average.
And by the way... shooting paper has proven to be more healthier for you... It has more "fiber" in it...
Dwayne
So does tree bark.DwayneR said:And by the way... shooting paper has proven to be more healthier for you... It has more "fiber" in it...
Dwayne
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