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Grip Preference

2333 Views 28 Replies 17 Participants Last post by  RHC
OK perhaps this is a dead horse I'm beating but I am curious. Why is it that all the compound shooters use a thin slightly angled grip with a low wrist placement, while recurve shooters tend to prefer a much larger grip and higher wrist placement?

Is this because when shooting recurve the weight at full draw is much greater and the broader grip is more comfortable?
Or does it have more to do with the fact that that is what everyone else is doing?

It is my understanding that the compounders believe that the low wrist helps to limit wrist variable and the thin grip reduces bow torque. If there is any basis in this wouldn't those also be beneficial to a recurve shooter?

Pardon my ignorance, your opinion is welcome.
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Grip size and shape preference varies with the shooter. You just have to experiment for yourself to see what works for you. Start with a cheap plastic grip, sand it down and/or add bondo where you think it's needed. Enjoy the journey. :)
 

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I am not sure it is a preference or just how the bows are sold (but what came first? the chicken? or the egg?)

All the compounds I see are sold with practically no grip, while recurves have larger grips. Now, this MAY be related to the rise int he BEST form. I thought that had specific grip requirements.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
good point I'll review some of my BEST materials. keep them coming folks.
 

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b0w -

You'll get a lot of opinions on this depending on which camp folks are in. I believe that both high and low grips and wrist positions have "+"s and "-"s and is one place where variation can be the rule rather than the exception. I've used both variations, but this decade I've settled on a lower grip/wrist for the increased stability (and comfort), YMMV.

Viper1 out.
 

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Its really about weight distribution, as in pounds per square inch. So, yes, its the broader grip as you mention, imho.

With a 40# compound with 65% let-off you only experience 14# pressure on your palm.

A 40# recurve with 0% let-off you are experiencing...40#.

Perhaps it could be argued that the compound style of frame-for-a-grip is better for torque reduction, etc, but it is moot if it destroys your hand.

Ever try it? Hurts like hell.
 

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Balancing a static weight at the end of your arm needs much lower force if the weight is in "low" position in comparison to the anchoring point.
So, considering the same static weight of a bow, high wrist grip needs more force to be balanced than low wrist one.
As compound has a vely low holding force in comparison to static weight, extra low grip is almost the only one thta can be manged confortably.
Try to rise and draw a compound bow with hight wrist to understand what I mean...
Then, there is the simpler fact that to rise a wight you will ever prefer a low grip on it...
By the way, low (wrist) grip IS more forgiving and less critical than high grip...
 

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Balancing a static weight at the end of your arm needs much lower force if the weight is in "low" position in comparison to the anchoring point.
So, considering the same static weight of a bow, high wrist grip needs more force to be balanced than low wrist one.
As compound has a vely low holding force in comparison to static weight, extra low grip is almost the only one thta can be manged confortably.
Try to rise and draw a compound bow with hight wrist to understand what I mean...
Then, there is the simpler fact that to rise a wight you will ever prefer a low grip on it...
By the way, low (wrist) grip IS more forgiving and less critical than high grip...
Just curious,

How is it more forgiving and less critical?

Is it because it is easier to manage the weight with a low grip?
 

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Balancing a static weight at the end of your arm needs much lower force if the weight is in "low" position in comparison to the anchoring point.
So, considering the same static weight of a bow, high wrist grip needs more force to be balanced than low wrist one.
As compound has a vely low holding force in comparison to static weight, extra low grip is almost the only one thta can be manged confortably.
Try to rise and draw a compound bow with hight wrist to understand what I mean...
Then, there is the simpler fact that to rise a wight you will ever prefer a low grip on it...
By the way, low (wrist) grip IS more forgiving and less critical than high grip...

your sig is what my coach person said to me at a shoot ahhaha
 

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Balancing a static weight at the end of your arm needs much lower force if the weight is in "low" position in comparison to the anchoring point.
So, considering the same static weight of a bow, high wrist grip needs more force to be balanced than low wrist one.
Actually, a high wrist grip connects higher on the bow and thus puts more of the bow's weight below the fulcrum formed by the hand.

By the way, low (wrist) grip IS more forgiving and less critical than high grip...
Seems to me that a low wrist grip is more forgiving and less critical because there is more of your hand in firm contact with the bow grip and because the hand is more stable relative to the wrist when it is in a low wrist grip than it is in a high wrist grip where your wrist is as flexible as an open door hinge. Just as standing on your whole foot is more secure than just balancing on the balls of your feet, it seems a low wrist grip is more stable. I'm using a Jager Grip and it feels very insecure because the bow is balancing on a knife edge (I exaggerate a tad) and it takes a fair amount of spring tension from to hold my grip securely. At some point I'll consider changing grips to something that feels more secure
 

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I'm using a Jager Grip and it feels very insecure because the bow is balancing on a knife edge (I exaggerate a tad) and it takes a fair amount of spring tension from to hold my grip securely. At some point I'll consider changing grips to something that feels more secure
Is your wrist-joint (Radius) directly under your arrow at full draw? My apology if I'm repeating something that you already know/do. In order to get the correct hand placement with the Jager BEST-type of grips you must 'deliberately fit' (or 'place') your thumb muscle onto the thumb-pad 'slope' of the grip (keeping the lifeline clear).....along with aligning your bow-arm elbow vertically and drawing the bowstring close to your bow-arm shoulder. When done in this manner the 'knife edge' becomes much less obtrusive. All this being said, it could be that the Jager grip doesn't fit your hand....one size does not fit all. - John
 

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OK, we are in a new up to now undisclosed area of the secrets of the risers & grips designs.:):)
Anyhow, low grip is more forgiving than hight grip because the point of pressure on the bow is more far away from the position of the rest and of the sight.
As in both recurve and compound you work in a closed and fixed polygon of forces at the aiming stage, were you keep the sight in the gold and you will try to do something to get the cliker klick or the release to release, more far is any shaking or hand movement from the line of the arrow, less mistake you will introduce at the release.
This also means that contrary to any common expectation, lowering the rest to make it closer to the grip throath is a design mistake in risers.
While this is well known by (good) riser manufacturers, other have tried in the past to lower the button hole, ending up in unexpected (by them) forgiveness problems (apart from clearance problems)
If you go to compound design, you have also to add that many modern designs are totally wrong in concept and very far away from what can be called a stable forgiving bow. Not tlking about brace and reflex or deflex, but weight distribution over and under the rest. When you draw one of them, you will immediately understand that all the weight is in the upper part, and in this situation if you don't keep your pressure point as far as possible from the rest, the stability of the bow at the release will become approx. zero.

The only real drawback of the low grip in recurve is that it requires a low bow shoulder to be managed properly, so it is almost impossible to use it in the so called "BEST" method, that basically requires an inner rotation of the bow shoulder that rises shoulder by definition. But, this is another story and topic.
 

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what about torque? and holding at a 45 degree angle? what about the bone to bone contact in the hand and arm?
 

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Gents -

Thes explainations are all well and good, but it's nowhere near as complicated as some folks make it sound.

Example, you have a refrigerator (without casters) to push across the floor. Try pushing it with your finger tips, then with the knuckes of clenched fists and lastly with flat palms. That's the difference.

The idea of a very high / 45 degree grip is great as far as reducing torque, and to some degree improving bone alignment/support but even with a specially designed grip, it can get tricky to maintain and uncomforatble over a long course of fire and that can lead to inconsistencies. It works for some folks and not for others.

The low grip on the other hand, like the palmed push of the fridge is stronger and thus more stable, but can lead to torque and heeling. Either way, you have to pick your poison and get it your best shot. If it doesn't work, try something else.

Viper1 out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
What?

Viper I see your logic so back to my original question why do I see all these recurve shooters piling on mounds of Bondo and filing away at their grips?

I shoot mine with the stock hoyt grip which after shooting a compound for years (martin scepter) the Hoyt helix seems way to high to be my best alternative.

Vittorio: I believe you are mistaken if you look at all the top bows on the market all have the cushion hole directly inline and above the pivot point and the handle/shelf is as close to the hole as possible while still allowing for vane clearance. I have attached a document that illustrates my point. I simply ask which end moves more the A end or the B end? clearly the closer you are to the pivot the les movement will be introduced on an error. (forgiveness) this is one of the reasons why trick shot artists shoot off the shelf.

But back to the grip issue, my impression here is that we have once again identified an area of archery where it boils down to personal preference and following the herd mentality. As soon as someone posts a score using one method the whole world starts trampling to imitate. The high risk grip seems to be convention, I certainly have not yet heard a compelling argument for either except that the grip has to be wider on a recurve than a compound due to the additional pressures on the archers hand. This makes perfect sense and I would agree.
 

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B0w -

Agreed - it is personal perference (or unfortunately, "coach perference"). The hole "bondo" thing, the Jaeger grip is to "force" (for lack of a better term) into the same position every time. If the grip does that for you, it's one less thing you have to remember / think about. I also use the stock Hoyt grips, but I can feel slight differences in hand placement when I get lazy and don't remember to seat it correctly.

Yes, the plunger is typically directly above the grips pivot point. That idea has been around forever and seems to make some sense, in regard to minimizing the effects of torque. The flip side is for the guys who do the whole "nodal" tuning thing and may want the plunger point further forward to accomplish that. I'm nowhere near that level, so I don't worry about it ...

Viper1 out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Vittorio I agree with that statement :wink::D

Seriously I'm not questioning your expertise just the explanation. There maybe some validity to your statements but they are extremely counter intuitive, so as such, they require some explanation.

Followers except what they are told and get in line, leaders develop the direction based on their ability to reason and observe. Like yourself I'm afraid I fall more in the latter category :) So if you want to convince me you have to provide more than your opinion, even though it may be recognized by many as authoritative. (and I know that it is)

:book1::blob1:


I believe the lower wrist grip to be more forgiving also. Here are my reasons: because you are removing the hinge of the wrist consequently less variation. You have more realestate of the hand on the bow so you get less twisting on the pivot and more control of the bow. Because you're using less muscle to retain repeatability it's less likely to break down in competition. All those make it more forgiving, but I don't believe it's because your further from the rest. Just my reasoning and observations. :)
 

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BOw -

I believe the lower wrist grip to be more forgiving also. Here are my reasons: because you are removing the hinge of the wrist consequently less variation. You have more realestate of the hand on the bow so you get less twisting on the pivot and more control of the bow. Because you're using less muscle to retain repeatability it's less likely to break down in competition. All those make it more forgiving, but I don't believe it's because your further from the rest. Just my reasoning and observations.
That's my take on it too, hence the fridge example. There have been just too many world-class scores shot the other way as well to completely dismiss it. Again, personal perference.

Viper1 out.
 
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