Actually, I'm pretty sure they're called half-ins.

That's all the help I can offer.

 

I hate being accused of a half-in when I’m actually all-in.

 

I prefer “regular” inserts. See problems with pulling footers out of target. I used half outs for first time last fall and it broke out of the shaft because the far leg snapped it. That was an extreme case but the half inch of exposed material does give the point more leverage.

 

The only half outs I will use are the Easton titanium half outs. Otherwise it's iron will or ethics inserts and collars.

 

Never really gotten on the half out insert stuff.
I get it I guess to protect end of shaft. Unnecessary stuff to worry about, let alone pulling from a target.
Good though.

 

I use ethics ss halfouts full lentgh 100gr. Love em.
Tried collars, hated em. Sanding arrows to fit.....no thanks. Also could never get em to spin true

 

I use the Ethics 100gr SS Halfouts as well. Easy to install, and spin true.

 

I've bent a handful of half outs, so I prefer HIT inserts with a footer.

 

I have been wrestling with this very issue myself for awhile now. The collars are annoying to remove from some bag targets at times. No big deal in a Big Shot Target.

Outserts I could never get to spin true reliably. Half outs were great until they started to bend after awhile. The same can be said for the Aluminum taper lock inserts from Victory. Those were mostly good, just had a couple that eventually took a bend.

I don't like Hit inserts without reinforcing the end of the shaft. However, I found that Hit inserts with Ethics Footers with end cap has been the most concentric of the inserts with a collar. All that I have done like this have spun true. And since the weakest part of the system is surrounded by carbon and a layer of steel it is not likely to bend.

My preference is for a normal static insert like what we use in standard diameter shafts. Although I use heavier brass or steel inserts where that is concerned. If I am using a small diameter arrow it will be Hit inserts with steel end caps.

This exact conundrum almost had me ready to just stick with standard diameter shafts only. Luckily I discovered hit inserts with end caps from Ethics Archery

 

FIRENOCK AeroOutsert with FACT technology for OD (14 sizes) WORKS GOOD ON SMALL DIA ARROWS

 

I have really enjoyed playing with my .166 and .204 arrows. Still use them. But realistically I know myself that there was probably nothing I did with them, I could not have done with my .231 Easton or .244 standard arrows . And the components are so much cheaper and universal and all the other cost and possible issues of the other style just go away.

I have never damaged the stock outserts sent with Gold Tip and Victory arrows on a target or an animal. Only on accidents where I missed and hit a rock or something. Never damaged one after a pass through and then striking something. But I shoot about 60 KE and never anything over about 200 lbs.

The last few arrows I purchased where standard size. I will still use my other arrows. But if I suddenly lost all of them today, I may just replace them with standard size or Easton .231 and be done with it.

 

Only tried hits once & they SUCK, & outserts are JUNK! Only will use a regular insert as have shot 85# & down & have NEVER had an insert break or bend & in 60+ years of bow hunting have made several shoulder hits with out having any insert or BH failure!

 

An Easton Deep Six RPS insert is another often overlooked option for a 5mm/.204" arrow. The obvious downside is that you have to use Deep Six (6-40 thread) field points and broadheads. But if you're willing to do that, the 5mm Deep Six insert is very strong, easy to install, and has a flange that covers the front end of the shaft.

 

Didn't know these even existed.

 

Thanks for the input. Anyone know why Sirius discontinued their offer of the Ethics half-outs for .204?? Were they having failures??

… the two setups below are exact same tip weight. They fly the same.

 

Thanks for the input. Anyone know why Sirius discontinued their offer of the Ethics half-outs for .204?? Were they having failures??

… the two setups below are exact same tip weight. They fly the same.

View attachment 7832156

Are you talking about the half jacket system? I think it's still offered. It's only for 204 arrows though.

 

I have never had a problem with half outs I have used on my ACC target arrows. But I do prefer a regular insert. Never considered using footers, never seen he point. If the arrow gets destroyed for what ever reason it served its purpose. Pobably hit something it shouldn't have.

 

HITs with footer (or not if you shoot a bag) are superior to halfouts imo. I started a thread not to long ago called "Had it with Halfouts" that you may find helpful if you are a diy kinda guy. I wanted stronger, lighter, cheaper (a rare combination as you typically get only 2 of the 3) because halfouts are expensive for what they are, and they all bend. The question is- do they bend infrequently enough for you that you don't care?

 

The question is- do they bend infrequently enough for you that you don't care?

Yes. I have bent one in 3-4 years I've been using them. The one I bent, I hit a steel post inside the targets leg. That was my fault

I've shot several deer and have hit rocks after the pass through and haven't bent any. A few BHs were destroyed but the insert still spun perfect.

I only use ethics stainless steel halfouts at full length.

Serious question, what are people shooting at that they are bending? Targets? Animals? Rocks? Are they bending SS or are they bending aluminum ones? I personally wouldn't want an aluminum halfout but I have no issue with SS

 

Inserts with a collar create the strongest structural system. I use a 75 grain brass hit with a 25 grain iron will collar. I feel this system makes for not only a stronger system at the insert point but also where the head meets the arrow. I have not had any issues with arrows going through the animal, breaking bone, or when they hit rocks after passing through.

 

I’ve used the Ethics SS half outs and more recently the Podium Archer Titanium half outs with no issues I wouldn’t use anything aluminum if durability is a concern. I really like the Black Eagle FOCUS system with all steel components but it gets heavy. Super durable I’ve shot one through hardi board and the arrow was fine.

The Podium Archer half outs don’t taper out to the same diameter as the back of a standard broad head so you need to get field points for 204 arrows so they don’t stick in targets.

 

I added footers to arrows I had that came with half outs, they would tend to blow out the side of the shaft on hard impacts, footer resolved the issue.

Building new I would go a different route.

 

I think half outs are junk. They just don’t hold up. Collars are nice until you shoot a bag target. After buying a dozen 5mm shafts I’m already looking forward to going back to 6mm so I can get standard inserts.

 

They both work. Pick the one you like better. Both suck pulling from targets.

And I agree with Carnival Velorum and say they are half-ins.

 

...but sometimes just the tip is fun.

 

Ok after reading Blonde’s thread, I’ve made my decision.
- structurally, post and footer is better. No argument.
BUT

• I practice into bag targets … footers are a big problem. Half-outs are not.
• most of the negative comments come from experience with AL half-outs. I would use SS.
• a standard dia arrow sounds like a good option but I have a bunch of .204 components that I’d like to use.
• soft soil here. Plenty of trees to hit but not much for rocks

Gonna go ahead with half outs - bottom line is I need to have something that will work with bag targets

250 Apollo @ 28”ctc and 10.7 gpi / 150 grain bh / 100 grain ss half out (in) / 28g for 4 3” x-vanes / plus a wrap and a little glue will come in at just over 600 grains (and 16% foc).

Shooting 70lb/29” the spine looks a little weak according to the charts but I’m getting bullet holes. I don’t have a chrono, but calculators say about 250 fps. Might throw 75lb mods in my bow and see how the arrows like it.

Keep tinkering.
W T F






Gonna build with Ethics SS half-outs.

 

I'm not staying that micro diameter arrows are bad or even that they aren't all they are advertised to be. I'm just going to say that for the vast majority of people a standard diameter shaft works great for hunting or target and is easier and is cheaper...

Kyle

 

What is a footer? Is it the same as a collar?

 

In the broadest sense, a footer is anything used to reinforce the front end of an arrow...could be inside or outside the shaft. In the old days, a footer often referred to a piece of stronger wood affixed to the front of a shaft made from a weaker wood species. A collar is an example of an external footer.

 

I like a collar/insert system over a half out. Just like the extra support on the end of shaft that a collar offers. Guess you could use a collar along with a halfout to accomplish the same. I believe the new GT LRT shaft has this system. I'm currently using the BE Focus System and really like it. The collar seems pretty stout compared to others and covers the shaft about 3/4 of inch. I shoot all the time with these into a Bulldog bag target with no issues getting them out. You just have to pull them out quick using momentum as your friend.

 

I ran the axis with iorn wills hit system. And did the exact thing arrow Snyder did gluing it all together before gluing to the shaft. Not many will do that and I get why.

Then I discovered sirius, and there local to boot.

This is my replacement for the 5mm. And honestly I doubt t I'll shoot much of anything else as long as their in business.

*Apollo shaft 250 spine
*ethics aluminum insert/stainless outsert "half jacket" 100g
*Q2i vanes x3 full helical (I'll have to go grab the pack to tell you which)
125g tota solid
Lumenok


Total weights @ 575 grains moving at the speed of smell through an elite energy 32 @ 65 pounds.

I have a heavy sticks for Alaska same shaft, 200 spine, 200 grain half jacket, 150g tota, 4 straight tac driver (small ones) and ip knocks. It's never been on a scale, but the moose blinked before the stick did zipping through it.

The only thing in 10 states hunted I haven't blown through at any range is the actual earth on the other side of my target. No I'm not a pro. But I won't shoot near a shoulder ball to risk the only thing that'll stop any stick. unless your pushing telephone poles your just not making it through that. And I'd still raise an eyebrow to the shooter depending the shot angle, it can be argued it's not even ethical due to vitals being shifted at angles.

If your shooting a footer/outsert/jacketed arrow. And you shoot a bag target. Well it's only a matter of time before the bag, or arrows destroyed. 99.9% of the time your bag will be long destroyed before you decore your insert. That being said, if you wanna shoot a footer, and you shoot alot like i do. Stop shooting bags. just stop. It's gonna cause more headaches then foam ever will. Gotta start picking bag thread and filler out of your arrows amd stuff after you cut your arrow outta a bag target. Long story short. Been there done that. Lol

Now, before I picked up my old elite and sold off my speed bow, i was shooting a speed bow to get the kentics from the weight of the stick i was shooting. So i thought. Turns out the kenitic jump actually wasnt that great at speed and it was louder. So i went back. the downside that led to the footers is the weight i was pushing on impact with the basic hit inserts no collar no adaptor and I started splitting shafts on impact. Over extended shooting not short term.so I ixxed that by bullet proofing my set up. Hindsight being what it is I'll never shoot a bare shaft again. It'll have a collar.

Why am I like this you question? I'm an electrician that absolutely loves redundancies and eliminating every factor I can except the human shooter. Is it overkill? Is there a such thing?


For the record. If anything were to happen to my current stick manufacturer I'd hop back to Easton, but for the 4mm match, and I'd arron Snyder deep six it with iorn wil equipment. There's absolutely nothing wrong with eastons shafts or components. Just wasted a few bows worth of dollars building arrows over the last season messing around bored.