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The Ranch Fairy
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Discussion Starter #1
Ok Sports Fans, this is the exact opposite of Heavy Arrow Penetration Update 1 because this pig is fresh dead.
He is an adult sized specimen. Big Mike Tanaka's kill shot on the beast was hard quartering to, through full length of this muddy, hairy mess, (see video). Shot with a Bishop 315 on a very heavy arrow. Pass through and down in sight.

So, then he set it up, shot it with three differnt setups, three different heads. My first video featured live critters, everyone of them jumped the string a bit. But, as the arrow mass and FOC increased, the penetration increased. It was 100% linear.

Here we see a fixed pig, blasted from 20 yards right in the Pig Bonk shoulder bone. This is a very common pig hit and the stories of lost "300 pounders" will forever be told. Please take note high frequency shaft wobble and redirected shafts, at impact, on the lighter setups - gotta be wasting energy. So then I think to my first video, you get a moving pig and some shaft wobble. BONK! This is someting you can't see till you slow it down.

Before you start up the hate mail
1. Yup - Only 3 shots. But hey, if he shot it 6 times you'd say "You stupid Ranch Fairy and Mike, 6 shots is twice as many as 3, that is too many times, so the last arrows hit a hole" or something". Please see #3 below. We'd love to see more Ashby style critter impact testing from anyone on AT.
2. We really are trying to help!
a. There is something to this high"er" foc and monolithic cut on contact "thing". I mean the arrows JUMP through very tough animals. My earlier update focused on a higher FOC 500 grain arrow as a reasonable increase in overall effectiveness. With a good fixed blade, I stand by that.
3. Please feel free to duplicate our results on a similar animal, please post your results. Mike and I encourage others to see if these results repeat. The more of us who do this, the better we will all be. You know, like science, where you keep testing and testing to find a common result over time. Like that. Please help the project. But only on meat and animals of substantial mass.

Ranch Fairy Out
PS - Big Mike sent me a 1040 grain arrow, it bareshafted in 3 shots. Stay Tuned
PSS - I also have a tower of death with a feeder spinning at 9PM, not gonna suck - Stay Tuned
PSSS - More fun is funner, less fun isn't. So there.

 

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Corripe Cervisiam
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Heavy arrow performed better, the mech head struggled on bone....that mirrors my experience.
 

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The Impartial Archer
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Hey the last thing we need is the truth floating around here............lol. Like you I see the same thing and have for years. I also (like you) don't think you need all that to kill a deer or cares what anyone chooses. What gets my goat is when people try to re-write physic or basic archery knowledge in efforts to justify they some how get better penetration with light arrows because a KE formula told em' so.........or the lighter arrow went into their block target more.


The heavier the arrow the better the penetration.......the lighter the arrow the faster (better trajectory) BUT less penetration........it HAS to be that way. How much you need or want is very subjective and we all agree on that...........just don't try to sell me magic grits that's all.........lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9AqbDtSFNU
 

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Excellent! Big pigs require specialize equipment, IME. Looks like the big Bishop carried the MAIL!
 

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Heavy arrows with high FOC are always the answer. Sadly many are still under the speed fad thinking mostly about how fast their arrow moves but not considering that when it does get there, is when the actual killing takes place and when you want weight and weight forward.
 

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Awesome video... thanks
Just went to a heavy setup with a bishop head, can't wait to shoot a spring bear with one!
 

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Interesting, like the rest of your videos. Just as you say, not conclusive but interesting nonetheless. The arrows wobbling in slo mo sells me on heavy arrows as much, maybee more than the actual results.

So, single bevel broadheads penetrate more? Why? Why does it penetrate deeper than say a two blade magnus stinger? And to be clear im not doubting, just curious why.
 

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can I shoot it?
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I am a Rage Trypan guy but love the idea of a fixed blade penetration machine, my question is (or more accurately my concern would be) bloodtrails. Out of all the heavier fixed blade broadheads you have tested what has given you the best bloodtrails? There was a thread on here yesterday about the Wasp Drones that I have found penetrate like crazy, especially when combined with a 470-520 grain arrow. Hard to even slow them down, but although I get 2 hole preformance the blood trail has been only adaquate at best. Is there a head you recommend that preforms the way you like but still delivers good blood trails?
 

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Blood trails are kinda a tail of two different Hogs. Larger boar with a decent shield don’t hardly bleed from my experience. And I’ve ran about everything threw em 3 1/8” traumas included. And your pretty much just tracking a animal and not much blood at all. Sows and small boar your average 125- 160 pounder now I have had some crime scenes the best have been with the 4 blade hades pro per average. I don’t even anticipate a blood trail on anything over 225 any more. It’s all about watching and listening for me. I do think the single bevel rotation helps some when you hit the meatier organs lung and heart it seems to be more damage and chunks and clots than with a 2 bladed double bevel. They entrances and exits are more pronounced (wider) from the S or U shaped cut than what I was getting with a normal two blade. But the larger class of Hogs you just have everything stacked against you to get a blood trail, long moppy ass hair mud and dirt and gravel. Hell if there half dry you can usually see Sparks when you hit em and blood just soaks into it and never hits the ground. And any decent shield is damn near leak proof lol. So I think no matter what you shoot you’ll at the big ones it’s always gonna be a disappointment blood trail wise. I finally came to peace with that part hahahah and anything under 200 pounds as long as you keep the shot about 2 inches from the bottom of them they bleed a decent bit with whatever you can bust threw em with , all about that shot placement.
 

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The Ranch Fairy
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911 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Interesting, like the rest of your videos. Just as you say, not conclusive but interesting nonetheless. The arrows wobbling in slo mo sells me on heavy arrows as much, maybee more than the actual results.

So, single bevel broadheads penetrate more? Why? Why does it penetrate deeper than say a two blade magnus stinger? And to be clear im not doubting, just curious why.
This is a GREAT COMMENT.
In the Ashby writings and from what I have experienced, when you hit soft tissues and ribs and the shot goes "right", things go right. I don't see any penetration difference on broadside, rib cage hits, none. I have killed a PILE of animals with the buzzcut and that mean ***** Ser Razor is a crime scene creator.
Again, ON SOFT TISSUE and Ribcage hits. I see no change. Pass through, short work, arrow skips off into the Texas sunset and the animal is down in 40 yards. Textbook. We like textbook.

It's when things get a little weird or yoy hit the Shield, and your pig twitches, so it hits a piece of shoulder blade, which of course is on top of the ribs add some quartering away (the best shot) and the amount of WORK, required by a limited energy projectile, just increased exponentially. Or as the video shows, that pig mike smoked he shot hard quartering on. That head was traveling length wise through the ribs and shoulder, shield, 3 feet of animal and out the ham. The single bevel is a machine, it only works, it only starts rotating, with forward motion. The forward motion causes the tissues to push against the bevel, the bevel pushes back at an equivalent force. Some Newton guy.....

A couple more things. Pig hair eats blades, I mean cleaning one will eat your knife (and you're not half way done......). The ribs are very close together, the skin wants to close up, and they never, ever, never ever, stop moving. Never.
You are almost assured to hit something weird, or a weird angle or as my first video showed clearly, the animal is moving at impact. This makes them EXCELLENT test material for all bow, arrow, broadhead, combinations. 24/7 365, no laws in Texas and if you can get a pass through a decent size pig, your white tails will be like a cream puff....unless they jump the string, or spin, or roll, and you hit something hard changing the game.

Hear me out. You don't have to go 700 grains and 25% FOC (but it is fun). But I do preach - get your arrow weight up and go Cut on Contact. Especially if you think you're gonna ever have a big boar hog truck in. Set up a hog arrow. Here's a couple pictures of the work your head has to do. One is out of focus but you get it. This applies to ELK and big mule deer too. They get "adult size". At the end of the day, we are all killing whitetails. Set up for perfect hits or set up for less than perfect hits.

Pig down rage ribs.jpg

This is from a 225 pound hog (the one I shot twice, with shwacker and then the 190 single bevel, in Heavy Arrow Penetration Update 1). I cut off the ribcage, shield is there, and the shoulder, then added a simple device to give some perspective. A huge amount of work just to get into the "cardiothoracic region" where you actually kill them.
WORK  7.58.54 AM.png

More coffee anyone?
 

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The Ranch Fairy
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911 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I am a Rage Trypan guy but love the idea of a fixed blade penetration machine, my question is (or more accurately my concern would be) bloodtrails. Out of all the heavier fixed blade broadheads you have tested what has given you the best bloodtrails? There was a thread on here yesterday about the Wasp Drones that I have found penetrate like crazy, especially when combined with a 470-520 grain arrow. Hard to even slow them down, but although I get 2 hole preformance the blood trail has been only adaquate at best. Is there a head you recommend that preforms the way you like but still delivers good blood trails?
Ok, listen to Big Mike, because he has all kind of experience. The man actually lets small boar hogs go to get bigger, like he's managing trophy whitetails. That's awesome!
So,
#1- Pigs suck, they don't like to bleed and they really hate to die. Lets start there.
#2- Those of us who get addicted to whacking relatively arrow proof critters, give up on the blood trail thing. We want pass through penetration and a broadhead with the ability to survive the first 5" of impact, sharp and intact where the killing gets done. Sorry man, but the mechanical manufacturers try to make, longer, lighter things, within a 25 grain (100 or 125) weight tolerance and wider blades. ALL of this means thinner steel or stainless counter productive to blade integrity. The blades are not sharp, at all, compared to a good COC. Doubt? Next deer you kill, try to open up the abdomen with a Rage blade. Then grab your thick bladed knife......
#3 - You and I cannot control what we hit inside the cardiothoracic cavity. Each lung has multiple lobes containing veins and arteries randomly placed like a road map. you could nick a major artery over the heart, cut off the trachea or barely hit the back of the lungs. Who knows? There are too many variables.
Its a blood pressure issue. Arteries are high blood pressure, veins "aint". Bigger holes allow the blood out. Ok on that. But its been my experience, to the tune of 40-50% failure rate (on big ones everyone wants to kill), the mechs have "Weird Results". I don't get those heads back. The big boars keep them to show their friends, later on they laugh and compare scars when they get out of hearing distance from the old sows who are barking about the lack of food and support for 'all the damn kids around here.........' Just like home!
When the mechs work, it is spectucular. But as the pigs get bigger, the failure rate goes up. I am not talking about all these 110 pound "internet 300 pounders" you see.
I don't care if people shoot mechanicals, honestly not a hater. I want archery to grow and if people want to shoot mechs, have a great time. But, when you move to adult sized critters, pass through penetration is the only thing that matters. You hit them in the right spot and drive the broadhead completely through, you won't have to look far.

Please, note, start watching the mechancal penetration on videos where about 8-10' of penetration on deer is normal....? So many of the pros shoot and then say 'man I got like 10" of penetration I MUST HAVE HIT A RIB....." WHAT? like that is a good thing. Note to all who have studied anatomy ( I had a cadaver in Gross Anatomy class - it was awesome).....see picture below. Apparently there are ribs......

Hope I didn't offend ya. At the end of the day, have fun man!! If the mechs are working, go whack!!!

Pig Skeleton Bone Donk  PM.png
 

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Shootingairborne
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Aiming for the exit hole you say? ;)
 

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How's it fair to run a test with a set up of a 475 grain arrow with 10% percent foc, and a set up of a 603 grain arrow with 23% foc? Wouldn't be hard to guess which one would win a penetration test.
 

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How's it fair to run a test with a set up of a 475 grain arrow with 10% percent foc, and a set up of a 603 grain arrow with 23% foc. Wouldn't be hard to guess which one would win a penetration test.
I think thats the whole point of it, to show how much better the heavier, high foc arrow is. Around my parts though, the 475/10 combo is considered way overkill. People here like to stay as close to 350gpi as they can. Speed is all they worry about.
 

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I think thats the whole point of it, to show how much better the heavier, high foc arrow is. Around my parts though, the 475/10 combo is considered way overkill. People here like to stay as close to 350gpi as they can. Speed is all they worry about.
He is trying to show you how higher foc and a heavier arrow will penetrate more, but he's also trying to sell you on a specific stile of broadhead. I'm not saying the guy who filmed it is, but the op is. A real test would be building up the other 2 arrows so that they are all equal.
 

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The Impartial Archer
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How's it fair to run a test with a set up of a 475 grain arrow with 10% percent foc, and a set up of a 603 grain arrow with 23% foc? Wouldn't be hard to guess which one would win a penetration test.
Also he's getting the weight and the FOC because he's using very heavy heads........he probably just swapped out the broadhead and used the same arrow. I see your point but I don't think he did it to try to rig the tests. Plus he's giving the facts so they are out there in the open.

I don't get to test as much as Troy (unfortunately) but from what I have seen the overall weight is the bigger factor in penetration. I do shoot overspined arrows a lot and IMO they wouldn't have as much wobble.......but that just theory.
 

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The Ranch Fairy
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911 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Also he's getting the weight and the FOC because he's using very heavy heads........he probably just swapped out the broadhead and used the same arrow. I see your point but I don't think he did it to try to rig the tests. Plus he's giving the facts so they are out there in the open.

I don't get to test as much as Troy (unfortunately) but from what I have seen the overall weight is the bigger factor in penetration. I do shoot overspined arrows a lot and IMO they wouldn't have as much wobble.......but that just theory.
those shafts are .250 spine man! A.K.A "El Stiffo Grande" HA! Tanaka is pulling 75 or 80 pounds just to make it fun! Pamela, my Xpedition Xcursion 6 is only 65....sad.
WHEEEEEE!!!!!!!
 
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