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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I hadnt considered a fat arrow until I read a couple of replies to my post asking about ACCs etc.. I'm in an experimental mood so I'd like to try something new. I'm thinking of fatboy 500s, with 100gr points and 2" blazers since I already have some of those. That would give me the right spine at 52lbs and an FOC of 10%. I wont have the option of raising my draw weight with those though. With 400s I could raise my draw weight to 58 like I was planning on doing, but then they would be overspined. I'm also thinking about the GT X-cutters but those seem sooo overspined, but since theres not much I can do about the spine with those, I could play with the FOC. So what do you look for in the large diamater arrow department? Does the spine matter at all or do you just want to cut as many Xs as possible cause of the big arrow?
 

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menaztricks said:
So I hadnt considered a fat arrow until I read a couple of replies to my post asking about ACCs etc.. I'm in an experimental mood so I'd like to try something new. I'm thinking of fatboy 500s, with 100gr points and 2" blazers since I already have some of those. That would give me the right spine at 52lbs and an FOC of 10%. I wont have the option of raising my draw weight with those though. With 400s I could raise my draw weight to 58 like I was planning on doing, but then they would be overspined. I'm also thinking about the GT X-cutters but those seem sooo overspined, but since theres not much I can do about the spine with those, I could play with the FOC. So what do you look for in the large diamater arrow department? Does the spine matter at all or do you just want to cut as many Xs as possible cause of the big arrow?
I shoot 2215 East X7's. Haven't let me down. Very dependable shaft.
 

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I'm jumping on the bandwagon that for at least recurve archers, fat shafts may not be the way to go. Shooting skinny spined correctly carbon arrows might be just as effective as shooting a big fat shaft, even in a single spot situation, where you can fit more arrows in the middle than you would if you were shooting big fat shafts, which may deflect into the red.
 

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Re-reading your post... I assume...

You may be shooting a compound. I say this because in shooting 52# and wanting to go up to 58#, this seem more logical as a compound than as a recurve. With a recurve you would need another set of limbs to go up that much poundgae. If your are shooting a compound I'd go with the 400 spines and switch to a 125 grn or 140 grn screw in point instead of a 100 grn point. That will help them spine closer. Also assuming you are shooting a compound, then most likely you'll be shooting a three spot. So stuffing shafts together in the 10 ring will not be a concern.

Regards,
 

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massman said:
You may be shooting a compound. I say this because in shooting 52# and wanting to go up to 58#, this seem more logical as a compound than as a recurve. With a recurve you would need another set of limbs to go up that much poundgae. If your are shooting a compound I'd go with the 400 spines and switch to a 125 grn or 140 grn screw in point instead of a 100 grn point. That will help them spine closer. Also assuming you are shooting a compound, then most likely you'll be shooting a three spot. So stuffing shafts together in the 10 ring will not be a concern.

Regards,
Oh obviously the person is shooting compound at that sorta weight. I wanted thread hijack and make the point that fat shafts may not be the way to go for everyone
 

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menaztricks said:
So I hadnt considered a fat arrow until I read a couple of replies to my post asking about ACCs etc.. I'm in an experimental mood so I'd like to try something new. I'm thinking of fatboy 500s, with 100gr points and 2" blazers since I already have some of those. That would give me the right spine at 52lbs and an FOC of 10%. I wont have the option of raising my draw weight with those though. With 400s I could raise my draw weight to 58 like I was planning on doing, but then they would be overspined. I'm also thinking about the GT X-cutters but those seem sooo overspined, but since theres not much I can do about the spine with those, I could play with the FOC. So what do you look for in the large diamater arrow department? Does the spine matter at all or do you just want to cut as many Xs as possible cause of the big arrow?
I'd go for X7s, as you can manipulate in finer spine choices. If I understood correctly, Fatboys are made in 340, 400 and 500 only? If you're gonna be shooting mostly indoor/spots, then X7s would be the way to go. I'm currently waiting for my X7 2312 Eclipses...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
yup, fatboys come in only 3 sizes. The only thing that worries me about going to aluminums is durability. I'm trying to get tight groups and not shooting multiple spots, so the arrows take a beating.
 

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If you are shooting a single spot target fat shafts may not be the way you want to be looking. Aside from the potential of damage to the shafts and nocks you have (I think) greater potential of kick outs. Carbon arrows are not indestructable, they can crack and break. If you go to a larger dia shaft I would strongly suggest shooting a multiple face target.

If I were shooting a single spot target at 20 yards and wanted a larger shaft than an A/C/C I would probably look at the GT 22 series and use pin nocks. I use the 22's for 3-d and they can take a beating especially with the pin nocks.
 

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I found that the heavier walled aluminums (13 wall thickness and up) are pretty durable. I have used 2213's indoors. I shot one right into the back of the super unibushing. Broke the beiter, perfectly flared out the end of the unibushing, yet the arrow was still mostly straight. As far as dents, I tend to use them on 3 spots, but on the occasions I have banged them together they have remained dent-free.
 

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For indoor there is a reason why ALL the top indoor shooters use alloy arrows.
If Carbons were good for indoor, they would all use them.

Go a 2315 with a heavy point and you won't look back.
 

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For indoor spots.....nothing but X7's.....if you're banging them together, a 3 or 5 spot target is the way to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Oh oh, I'm confused now. This is probably the first time anybody recommends me aluminum over carbon. What makes the X7s that good?
 

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442fps said:
Yep , its called Easton Sponsoring !
Well my wife is a Easton sponsored shooter and they never dictated to her to use any of their arrows over another one.
She could shoot Jazz's for FITA if she wanted to.
They could always use Fatboys.

X7's are heavier which is nicer for indoor, and straighter than carbons.
Also wear better than carbon.
Heavier is better for indoor, that's why so many use 180-220 grain points (and it aint just the spine)
 

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442fps said:
Yep , its called Easton Sponsoring !
I would imagine that it would be better for easton for everyone to jump on the carbon bandwagon, they cost alot more than X7's.
I think as long as the arrow tunes for your bow, shoot it. And, if the bigger X7 or fat arrow gives you a mental edge then go for it. What ever makes you shoot better.
 

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Marcus
X7's are heavier which is nicer for indoor, and straighter than carbons.
Straighter than my CT Hippo XP ?
Really not !

And , btw , might be you should read the article from Rick McKinney that i've posted a couple of weeks ago , i think the title was "straightness and spine " !

Marcus

Well my wife is a Easton sponsored shooter and they never dictated to her to use any of their arrows over another one.
She could shoot Jazz's for FITA if she wanted to.
They could always use Fatboys.
Try to see it this way : Is there any other Alu shaft manufacturer in the world who can do arrow shafts , only Alu , with a quality than the Eastons ?
If yes , i've never heard from him .

If Easton let the big guns shoot and win with fat carbon shafts , they would automatically open this market for other carbon shaft manufacturers also .
We know that there are better shafts available than the Fatboy , but if you have to choose between a medium quality carbon shaft and a hight quality alu shaft i also would choose the alu , specially when my sponsor has NO high quality carbon shaft available .

Marcus


X7's are heavier which is nicer for indoor.
Why ?

Marcus

Heavier is better for indoor,
Again why ?

Marcus
that's why so many use 180-220 grain points (and it aint just the spine)
You really believe in this ?

And also , why shouldn't i use fat carbons which are also way overspined with the same heavy points ?

Marcus

Also wear better than carbon.
When i'm sponsored i don't care about wear , i have the material for free , i use it , and if i need more i order it , period !

Here in France we are shooting only at Stramit targets ( indoor ) , they are terrible hard , so in fact you have the choice between alu shafts which are bend already after a couple of practicing sessions , or carbon shafts which will break after several months .

Now i ask you why do i sell much more carbon shafts , and the number one is clearly the Hippo , than alu , hey , i will sell the customers their prefered shafts , for me as a Dealer it doesnt matter what they buy .
But why is it that 4 out of 5 shooters , and they pay , they are not sponsored , go with Carbon after some tests , i tell you , cause they shoot better !
 

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442fps said:
Straighter than my CT Hippo XP ?
Really not !
ummm, yeah
And , btw , might be you should read the article from Rick McKinney that i've posted a couple of weeks ago , i think the title was "straightness and spine " !
Read it, and sorry, I don't agree with it. And having tested the spine and straightness of Easton shafts they are certainly excellent.
McKinney also believes that lighter is better for wind shooting. Easton disagrees, as does physics.


If Easton let the big guns shoot and win with fat carbon shafts , they would automatically open this market for other carbon shaft manufacturers also .
We know that there are better shafts available than the Fatboy , but if you have to choose between a medium quality carbon shaft and a hight quality alu shaft i also would choose the alu , specially when my sponsor has NO high quality carbon shaft available .
I think you are making claims about the company without knowing what you are talking about. As I said my wife was NOT told what to shoot, she had her pick of arrows. In fact she got X7's and Fatboys and used the X7's to win the National Indoor here. Easton did not say "You must only shoot the X7's"
Now you may believe that they tell Cousins, Dudley, White and Freeman what to use, but you would be wrong.
Pro shooters use what they will win with. If Cousins or Dudley thought Carbontechs would get them the wins they would shoot them.
Please show me a world class pro level shooter who has their gear choices dictated to. Don't make accusations, show me proof. I have given you first hand proof they don't do it.


Heavier is better for indoor because it is less succeptable to variations in your form. I have shot Fat carbons, fat alloys and thin arrows indoor and my best scores are all with the alloys WITH heavy points. (high 589 FITA rounds) I have also had the same feedback from the same tests by a number of international shooters who have found the same.

You really believe in this ?
Results don't lie.
What you believe it's marketing only? I have tracked hundreds and hundreds of indoor scores and the heavy points are worth 5-10 points to me. That includes using 2312's and 2314's which spine in correct without teh extra weight. The extra weight is worth more than spine.
And also , why shouldn't i use fat carbons which are also way overspined with the same heavy points ?
Couldn't care what you do.

When i'm sponsored i don't care about wear , i have the material for free , i use it , and if i need more i order it , period !
Wear is important. I personally go through a set of alloys in 3 months. Carbons would not last me month. Also I have seen carbons snap in half shot into stramit at indoor tournaments. Not what you need when the pressure is on.
Here in France we are shooting only at Stramit targets ( indoor ) , they are terrible hard , so in fact you have the choice between alu shafts which are bend already after a couple of practicing sessions , or carbon shafts which will break after several months .
I shoot 500+ indoor arrows a week into stramit targets and alloys last me 3 months without breaking. I use 2315's so the only bend once they have worn through the anodizing. Been shooting stramit for 20 years so know what it does very well.
Now i ask you why do i sell much more carbon shafts , and the number one is clearly the Hippo , than alu , hey , i will sell the customers their prefered shafts , for me as a Dealer it doesnt matter what they buy .
But why is it that 4 out of 5 shooters , and they pay , they are not sponsored , go with Carbon after some tests , i tell you , cause they shoot better !
No because you clearly are a Carbontech dealer and you push their shafts and philosophies. I am also a dealer and for our recent indoor Nationals I sold hundreds of allows for the event and NO CARBONS. So what does that tell you? I'll tell you, because they shoot better. ;)

I also sell CarbonTech shafts as well as Easton and Carbon Express. I recommend Carbontech for hunting and 3D, CXL's for 3D and Easton for everything.
 

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OK , this will be my last post to his thread and specially to a post from you Mr. Downunder , cause after this post i will add one more to my ignore list cause it is absolutely senseless to discuss with you :wink:

No because you clearly are a Carbontech dealer and you push their shafts and philosophies. I am also a dealer and for our recent indoor Nationals I sold hundreds of allows for the event and NO CARBONS. So what does that tell you? I'll tell you, because they shoot better.
Yes , i'm also a CT dealer , but i'm also a Easton dealer and i'm also a Beman dealer . I also sold GT , but i stopped because of different reasons . Shafts like standard .246 carbon shafts ( plus the fat diameter shafts ) make around 5% of the yearly shaft volume , therefore Easton is much important for me and i have absolutely no probs with their products .

Also I have seen carbons snap in half shot into stramit at indoor tournaments. Not what you need when the pressure is on.
Me too ,that's exactly a reason why i dont sell a specific brand !

Read it, and sorry, I don't agree with it. And having tested the spine and straightness of Easton shafts they are certainly excellent.
McKinney also believes that lighter is better for wind shooting. Easton disagrees, as does physics.
I never said that Easton's are BAD shafts :confused: , i only said that there are better fat carbon shafts out there than the Fatboy !
I dont agree with everything what he writes , nobody is 100 % right ( exept you like it seems ) , but i also dont agree 100 % with Easton or Hoyt or .....

Now you may believe that they tell Cousins, Dudley, White and Freeman what to use, but you would be wrong.
Pro shooters use what they will win with. If Cousins or Dudley thought Carbontechs would get them the wins they would shoot them.
Please show me a world class pro level shooter who has their gear choices dictated to. Don't make accusations, show me proof. I have given you first hand proof they don't do it.
Once again , you compare apples with oranges , shooters like the above three and also some more are able to shoot great to perfect with lower quality material than lots of the average shooters .If people are earning a fortune with the money from their sponsors , nobody will be fool enough to use material from another manufacturer who dont pay anything !
Wasn't it Dave C. who never spoke good about the Spiral Cam , and wasn't it the same Dave C. who shot a perfect round on the last Field World Championships with a borrowed bow with Spirals ( btw that's an Info that i saw here on AT ) , so i cant confirm it 100 % :rolleyes:
And you so named proof is nothing else than : Cousins , Dudley etc are shooting Alumium shafts . Like i said , if you have the choice between a really good Alumium shaft and a not so good carbon shaft .... :wink:

I shoot 500+ indoor arrows a week into stramit targets and alloys last me 3 months without breaking. I use 2315's so the only bend once they have worn through the anodizing. Been shooting stramit for 20 years so know what it does very well.
I have customers who are shooting 1000+ arrows a week , and exactly these are the people who go with Carbon for the competition !

Please show me a world class pro level shooter who has their gear choices dictated to. Don't make accusations, show me proof. I have given you first hand proof they don't do it.
Might be not in Australia , but what do you know about Europe ?
Nothing !

Doesn't matter , believe what you want , everybody has the right to have his opinion , me too , i asked you several questions , but in fact you answerd nothing .

And now : ignore list , click , done ,

Have a good shooting !
 

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Wow, what a dummy spitting cry baby

"I can't handle a debate! WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

Sorry I answered all your questions and you have yet to provide proof. Please show us the contracts by Easton dictating they are not allowed to use Carbons for indoor.

Or better yet, stop lying to your customers about it by trying to paint Easton as an industry bully.

The best part about you putting me on ignore is that I won't hve to have you respond to my posts. What a shame.
 

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fat shafts

Well to get back to the question.

If you decide to shoot multiple spot faces and have the oppurtunity to get your hands on some 2613 shafts. Cut them as long as you can ( 32, 33 + inches), put in the heaviest tip you can get, (I use 300 gr. tips) fletch helical with feathers. Works great, my target arrows weigh in over 700 gr. You will love them ( X beware).
 
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