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#### FCFCharlie

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I’m having trouble sighting in my HHA DS-5519. For the past few weeks I’ve been figuring out my 20, 40, & 60 yard numbers on the site tape. They are as follows

Yardage Sighting Number
20 16
40 28
60 52

There are two ways to set up the tape. First, subtract the 20 from the 60 and use the corresponding tape. 52-16=36. Easy enough, but, if I use the second method; which is to take the 20 from the 40 and then apply that to a conversion chart, included in the packaging, I should be using the 27 tape. In fact, I put the 27 tape on my wheel everything 25 yards and further was wrong. I’ve taken it off and reconfirmed my numbers.

My shooting buddy and I were hypothesizing why the 20-40 drop off is so much less then the 40-60. We figured it’s because the flight of the arrow is parabolic, meaning, the further it goes, the less forward momentum it has vs the pull of gravity. Like throwing a rock off a cliff, at first it goes straight, but eventually it’s going down faster then it’s going forward.

Confirming our hypothesis I was surfing AT last night and came across the whole FOC debate. Working out my arrows I have a 12.9% FOC. While on the high side it’s within acceptable tolerances. Based on FOC theory, my arrows would have a parabolic flight path, they’d drop quickly after x distance.

So, we figured, if two guys like us could reason that out, then surely HHA set up the tapes so that the further distances were spaced further apart then the close ones. i.e. 22 to 23 has a smaller gap then 56 to 57. Well, to my naked eye, that doesn’t show up on the tapes. When I line up the spare sight tape with the #36 tape, my 20 and 60 yard distances are correct, but way off at 40 yards and everything else in between.

So now I’m frustrated. Does all this mean that the DS-5519 doesn’t work with a high FOC arrow? Did I figure something incorrectly? Help me out AT gurus.

#### Bwana

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Well, You put a lot of thought into the dynamics

But I have a few thoughts:
The 20/60 calibration is more accurate.
The tapes are based on speed vs gravity.
The tapes could be off SLIGHTLY due to heavier shaft momentum.
This could also be true based on FOC dynamics.

I suggest calibrating 20/60 yardage. What is the speed, and arrow weight comb ?

#### FCFCharlie

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Well, You put a lot of thought into the dynamics
This could also be true based on FOC dynamics.

I suggest calibrating 20/60 yardage. What is the speed, and arrow weight comb ?
My arrows are 398gr, speed is 292 fps. I'm just worried that the tapes are too linear for the FOC of my arrow. If I use the tape suggested by 60-20. All my middle distances are messed up.

#### Rodfog

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I had some issues with sighting in and had a friend put them in on target and print out a range tape for me. I would not recommend the 20/40 yard method if you can use 20/60 yard. the instructions say you have to be extremely accurate with cal tape numbers.

#### Bwana

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I use a heavier FOC than that, on some of my bows ... no problem. I have HHA sights on 4 of them ... dead on :smile: ... all completely different setups.

Somethings wrong ukey: You are using the setup/linear tape to calibrate ? Is the bow flying perfect ? If the vanes are hitting your sight at 60 yds. it's deflecting down.....Your sure the math is right (starting point/ending point) ?

I've never seen a setup they don't work on.

#### FCFCharlie

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I'm sure there could be something wrong, probably me :shade:

I'm sure the math is right, I'm not sure about my shooting. I just got off the phone with Harry at HHA. He's the owner, designer etc etc. He was awesome. He said there must be 200,000 people using those tapes and none of them have the problem I'm describing. The math on the parabolic flight paths can't be that different. I believe him :teeth: He really knows what he's talking about.

He suggested I go shoot some more at 20 and 60 yards. Forget everything I've done so far, put the tape on based on what ever those numbers are and it will be right. Again, I believe him.

He did give me two tips,
1.) Don't use a range finder to get the distance, they can be wrong sometimes.
2.) Run a line of black tape across the middle of your target and when half the arrows are above and half below, that's the number you should use.

Seems like fantastic advice. I'm gonna go enjoy the day and shoot my bow. That's probably good advice any day. I'll post my results when I have them. Thanks for all the help.

#### Bwana

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Well, I'd use a rangefinder ... and double check it with another one.

Take your time .. I don't stick my finished tape on until, 3 or 4 day's of solid shooting at 60 yds. ... good luck chuck

#### wicked1Joe

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I have always subrtracted the 20 from the 60...to get the correct number...never had a problem...

#### B3AV3R

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3 things I'd like to comment on...

Use the 20/60. It's far more accurate.

FOC does not change impact, provided the arrows are flying straight(well tuned). Only speed will change impact.

Use YOUR rangefinder. Who cares if it's accurate or completely wrong... It's the one you will be carrying to the field and relying on. It would do you no good to measure the distance or use another rangefinder if yours did not match...

#### Bwana

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3 things I'd like to comment on...

Use the 20/60. It's far more accurate.

FOC does not change impact, provided the arrows are flying straight(well tuned). Only speed will change impact.

Use YOUR rangefinder. Who cares if it's accurate or completely wrong... It's the one you will be carrying to the field and relying on. It would do you no good to measure the distance or use another rangefinder if yours did not match...
:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up

#### Frederick D. Be

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No Way

There is no way you are at a 27 sight tape at 292 fps. I shoot both the M6 and M7 with the DS5519. One is 315-317 and uses a 26 sight tape and the other is 310-312 and uses a 27 sight tape. I do have a Captain that uses the 31 sight tape at 290-292 fps. I will bet dimes to dollars either the wheel is loose on the sight or you are using incorrect distances or you misread the tape on the wrong side of 50 and it should have been 48/47 instead which would give you a 31/32 sight tape. Get YOUR rangefinder out and measure 20 yards and 60 yards. Forget the 40 yard measurement if you have access to the 60 yard target. Get the height consistent and read the number on the correct side.

#### laserlou1

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i have a z7 [email protected] 28 in. my sight tape is #32 using the 20-60 method. all yardages in between are right on

#### Bowdoctor1

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325 fps uses a 23 tape

#### Bowed Up

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Range finders will fool you. You are 3 feet between between each yard. The range finder dont show that. Pull a tape to get your distances.

#### B3AV3R

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Range finders will fool you. You are 3 feet between between each yard. The range finder dont show that. Pull a tape to get your distances.
Unless you're carrying your tape to the woods with you, I'd disagree with this statement.

#### HyperFlow

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Unless you're carrying your tape to the woods with you, I'd disagree with this statement.
It could happen

#### HyperFlow

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325 fps uses a 23 tape
Really? My bows faster then that and i cant shoot a 23

#### Big Eazy

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I have set up 3 different bows, all with different pound-ages and arrow weights. I always used the 20/60 and I measured each and every time with a tape measure. Take some time in between your shots and you will be able to tell by feel which one is the best arrow. The instructions say to be exact with your measurements. I won't take a tape measure to the woods, but I do take a well calibrated sight. :teeth:

#### Big Eazy

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Really? My bows faster then that and i cant shoot a 23
That will depend completely on how the sight is set-up and the position of the wheel.

#### Terry A

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Hha

Well, I'd use a rangefinder ... and double check it with another one.

Take your time .. I don't stick my finished tape on until, 3 or 4 day's of solid shooting at 60 yds. ... good luck chuck
I used a range finder to set mine because that is what I will be using if I have to change the sight in the field. This second sentence in the above post is the best advice on setting one of these sights, TAKE your time dont be in a hurry to get a sight tape on the sight till you are sure the 20 yard setting is perfect and the 60 yard is perfect and all will be good. Also the horizontal black line on the target is the best way to get the yardages set, I use electricians tape.

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