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Discussion Starter #1
I was out yesterday afternoon for a sort of a final tuneup with my own two HCA bows and there was one other guy at the site with a recent Mathews bow, parallel limbs, set just under 70 lbs. I let him try several shots with my 280-gr arrows, then we checked speed with his own arrows vs the HC arrows; it was 275 fps vs 324 fps.

That's pretty substantial. Misjudge distance by five yards out past 25 yards and that's the difference between being an inch off and missing the deer and never finding the arrow.

The bow made no unusual noise nor sounded any different with the HC arrows and there was zero reason to think it might be harmed in the process. The only real reason for the IBO 5 gr/lb thing is the outmoded assumption that stiffness requires weight, and the idea that shooting an arrow which does an impersonation of a sine wave or a wet noodle will be too much like dry snapping the bow. The HC arrows, far from that, were actually stiffer than the heavier arrows, which were typical carbon arrows.

The 280 grains arrises from HC 5.5 gr/inch shafts, 2" vanes, and an 80 gr point which corresponds to the 80 gr Aftershock.
 

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Ive often wondered the same thing, a proper spine without the weight. The arrows I am talking about though arent HCA but some other brand. Cant think of them right now.
 

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warranty?!?!?

Would this voind Mathews warranty? Better read the details before shooting them. Would hate to hear the "I hate Mathews" threads becasue they will not replace damaged limbs and/or risers because of this. It might not hurt it now, but it might be causing non visible damage that will show up later.
 

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The only real reason for the IBO 5 gr/lb thing is the outmoded assumption that stiffness requires weight.....


Good luck with that theory.



You really think weight of the arrow has no bearing on the absorption of energy the bow is putting out?


Why not shoot a 200 grain arrow?



A No. 2 pencil?
 

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had a shop owner shoot one with my high country bow Excalibur to show me the speed with the arrows .
after shooting them we both agreed they arent right for my bow the noise it made. fast but much louder just my experience with the arrows.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Seth the XSlayr said:
Good luck with that theory.

Why not shoot a 200 grain arrow?

I shoot that same 280 grain arrow in a HC bow set at about 83 lbs, and it doesn't hurt it. I'm not suggesting you set the Mathews bow to 83 lbs and then shoot the 280 gr arrow. Probably wouldn't hurt it but who'd want to find out?

The arrow leaves the HC bow at about 350, because of the yuppie one-size-fits-everybody cam. One of HCs newer bows set to that weight would likely be closer to 400 with the same arrow.
 

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Let me start off by saying that I don't know what causes damage to a bow when too light of an arrow is used. Now this is what I think. I think that the damage is caused at the end of the shot after the arrow leaves the string and the bow has to absorb all the energy of the moving limbs, cams, and string and its attachments. If my assumption is correct then a person should be able to shoot IBO speed of the bow no matter what his draw length or the weight of the arrow. Just check the speed of the bow and if it is IBO or below keep shooting.

If a person with a 32" draw and 5 grains per pound shoots 20 feet per second above IBO speed then maybe they need to use a heavier arrow to slow the bow down.

When I refer to IBO speed I am talking about 70 pound pull, 30 inch draw and 5 grains per pound.

What is wrong with my thinking?
 

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The arrows Im talking about are the Archers Choice SpeedPro Max. There like 5.5 gpi and 6.2gpi. THeres no warning or anything, Im just wondering what their theory is on them.
 

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medved said:
I was out yesterday afternoon for a sort of a final tuneup with my own two HCA bows and there was one other guy at the site with a recent Mathews bow, parallel limbs, set just under 70 lbs. I let him try several shots with my 280-gr arrows, then we checked speed with his own arrows vs the HC arrows; it was 275 fps vs 324 fps.

So, how short were the draw lengths????? I am getting 280+ fps out of my Switchie, set at 70#, a 30" draw length and a 418 grain arrow, but this Mathews you tested only was able to get 275 fps with a 280 grain arrow??? I find that very, very, very hard to believe :confused:
 

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High Country owns the Archers Choice name and those arrows. I have not heard any about these arrows for a long time. These arrows are fast, but very very breakable. I have heard several bad stories regarding hunting situations. The arrows are great for high speed, and if you need that much speed for lack of yardage judgement, they may not be bad (if you don't mind replacing broken ones often). However, that light of an arrow does little for penetration on large game. Just my thoughts, experiences, and feedback.

They are REALLY fast though! All in all, I don't think they are good for any bow.
 

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PABowhunt4life said:
So, how short were the draw lengths????? I am getting 280+ fps out of my Switchie, set at 70#, a 30" draw length and a 418 grain arrow, but this Mathews you tested only was able to get 275 fps with a 280 grain arrow??? I find that very, very, very hard to believe :confused:
it got 324...read it again....
 

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Jose Boudreaux said:
it got 324...read it again....
OHHHHHHHHHH, my bad, I misread it. I thought he meant that the Mathews got 275 fps with the 280 grain arrow as opposed to the HCA getting 324 fps.

I apologize for the brain fart :D :D :D
 

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Discussion Starter #13
jim p said:
If a person with a 32" draw and 5 grains per pound shoots 20 feet per second above IBO speed then maybe they need to use a heavier arrow to slow the bow down.

When I refer to IBO speed I am talking about 70 pound pull, 30 inch draw and 5 grains per pound.

What is wrong with my thinking?

It's outmoded. The ONLY consideration here is the bow's efficiency. If the limbs are efficient enough, and certainly that is the case with all of your newer parallel limb bows, then the lesser weight of the HC arrow will simply be translated into greater speed, and the bow will not be harmed. MOMENTUM, mass times velocity, which is the thing that drives arrows through a prey animal and kills it, and the thing the bow is trying to produce, will remain approximately the same.

The reason they used to tell you to use heavier arrows is that they assumed you could not get stiffness without the weight. HCA does, and the thinking is outmoded. IF you did not have the stiffness, then what you would have would be an arrow doing an impersionation of a sine wave/letter S/wet-noodle or whatever you want to call it, momentum of the arrow would be reduced, and the bow would be absorbing the lost energy in the form of vibration and stress.

BECAUSE of the stiffness and strength of the HC arrows, that does not happen.

At least not with newer and more efficient bows. In the case of older bows which are NOT efficient enough to translate the lighter weight into velocity, you won't have to guess about it. They will make a LOT of noise trying to shoot these kinds of arrows, and you don't do it more than the once it will take to figure that out. What will be happening in this case is that the limbs and cams are simply not efficient enough to gain the greater speed.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
PABowhunt4life said:
So, how short were the draw lengths????? I am getting 280+ fps out of my Switchie, set at 70#, a 30" draw length and a 418 grain arrow, but this Mathews you tested only was able to get 275 fps with a 280 grain arrow???
You were not reading carefully. The guy was getting about 275 out of his own goldtip arrows, and about 324 with the 280-gr HC arrow.

There was no unusual noise and it did not appear to harm the bow in any way. Huge gain.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
machinegun74 said:
The arrows Im talking about are the Archers Choice SpeedPro Max. There like 5.5 gpi and 6.2gpi. THeres no warning or anything, Im just wondering what their theory is on them.
HC is not selling the most mechanically sophisticated bows out there, but they have forged a ten or twelve year lead in materials, using carbonfibre risers and heat-treated limbs. They say they can dry snap their bows without harm. I'd never do that, but they say they can. Their arrows are simply more sophisticated than anything else out there, lighter and stronger than competitors.

I've been using those arrows for the last three years. They do not break or otherwise fail easily. I've had two or three of the 6.2s come apart at the front mainly because the glue holding the inserts failed when the arrows were being fired into an overly hard rubber target with a safari-grade (approx 90 lbs) bow. I haven't had one of the 5.5s break from use.

I had one of the 5.5s in my quiver by mistake once and shot it through a hay bale which was much less solid than it looked and into a tree with a safari bow and had to leave the point in the tree, but the arrow was unharmed. I've gotten near passthrough shots on rifle range target backings ( 3/8" plywood) at 100 yards with the 6.2 shafts without them being harmed.

In other words, the HCA arrows are a known quantity, and have well withstood the test of time.
 

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It may not harm the bow on the first shot, 5th shot, or maybe the 100th! But it will, and you are going to be screwed for warranty! How much money is speed worth!

I have an Allegiance I have squaked 314 fps out of, come hunting its 466 grain arrows. Kinetic energy out the yang!

Have your bud determine kinetic energy between the two arrows, and then broadhead flight between the two...I'm bettin' those Gold Tips will start looking pretty good!
 

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A person can shoot whatever they dang well please --- its a free country.:darkbeer: I think that you should also mention that HCA only warrant the carbon graphite risers and the carbon graphite limbs like you mentioned. All and I mean ALL manufactures that have machined aluiminum risers state that not less than 5 grs arrow weight per lb of draw weight for arrows. IT WILL CAUSE DAMAGE OVER A PERIOD OF TIME.:wink: Alot bows can withstand a dryfire but not continous dry fires---- that is unless you've got a HCA carbon graphite riser.:) They warrant them for lifetime even against 1000's of dryfires.:eek: There's a fine grey line between hard core and stupid and guess what ----- I'm living proof. Nontheless, I won't be shooting lite weight arrows in my bows.:wink: :) :darkbeer:
 

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I think you're smokin' crack! The 5 gr per pound thing has to do with the energy being absorbed by the bow. The lighter the load the less energy goes into the arrow and more is transferred to the bow causing MORE vibration which can weaken the limbs, riser.... Carbon arrows have made it possible to shoot under 5 gr per pound for years (with the right spine) but the manufactures STILL use the 5 gr per pound rule. It use to be 6 gr per pound and has been lowered to 5 gr IMO due to more efficient bows and solid aluminum riser designs. So, your theory to me doesn’t hold water. I admit I no little about the new HC "dryfire" bow but from what I thought it was made of carbon fiber so it could handle a lighter arrow because of THE BOWS different design. A Mathews is not made of carbon fiber and DOES still use the 5 gr per pound rule. Just do me a favor and be SURE to tell everyone around you at the range what you are doing so they can get the cameras and take cover....See ya' on Americas dumbest videos.
 

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The riser and limbs may be warrantied and may not explode, but that string is going to and so is your cranium when it does. :wink:
 

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Its folks like these that stick their finger in a light socket, and try to hug grizzly bears. Common sense is for pansies!!! LOL:zip:
 
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