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I've had a problem with my bow shoulder collapsing, caused by not pushing with my bow arm. I've been focussing on pushing with my bow arm, which stops the collapse, but I am not sure how hard to push. How hard I push affects my draw length, and how easy it is to go through the clicker. I am using lighter limbs for indoor season, to work on my form, and one way I can set my clicker is by raising the bow with a relaxed shoulder, and pushing as hard as possible as soon as I begin to draw. An alternative way I've experimented with is to not push as hard as possible immediately, but to try to balance my pushing force with the draw force, and pushing harder as I draw further back; this requires me to make a judgement about how much I need to push. The advantage of pushing as hard as possible is that I don't have to think about how hard to push; the disadvantage is that I tire more quickly. When I push as hard as possible, I wonder if there is a gap in my shoulder joint, and I don't have bone on bone contact. Is this possible? Some have told me it is not possible. I have noticed that if I try to push as hard as possible, at some point I will not be pushing as hard as in the beginning; certainly I will get stronger, but if I'm always pushing as hard as possible, I think I will always get tired after several arrows and not push as hard.

Also, I've been told that once I raise the bow, I should tighten the muscles around the bow shoulder (the lower back muscles, and the triceps) in order to stabilize and set the bow shoulder. Others have told me not to do that. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Ric
 

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Ric -

"Pushing" the bow arm towards the target only aids alignment, nothing more.
Therefore, you really can't "push" too hard, but you can start too early and burn yourself out faster.

I wouldn't over think it.
Once at anchor set your alignment (start the push) and shoot.
In your case, thinking alignment might serve you better than pushing - but that's a guess.

I generallydon't recommend tightening any ancillary muscles.
Meaning if it ain't doing something specific, don't force it.

Viper1 out.
 

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Just stick your arm out and hold it there. If you do a push up, when at the top of the exercise, you aren't really pushing. Your arms are extended and holding.

At full draw it is the same.

I wouldnt tighten or clinch any muscles during the draw and shot. Being relaxed is the key. Its not really pushing and pulling. It's more equal resistence. Resistence against the force of the bow to let back down.

Chris
 

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Pushing technique involves bow shoulder moving forward during expansion to get "clik" from the cliker. Not extending the bow arm or the bow wrist.
People often forgets that to make the cliker going, you need some sort of movement as in any case the point has to travel under the cliker for some distance, moving back or with cliker moving to target

In THA I have explained the advantages of the pushing technique over the pulling and push-pulling ones, and how it has to work.

P.S:
Of course, to be able to move, bow shoulder must not be locked
 

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The metaphor I use is pumping up a bicycle tire with a two-hand pump. That last smooth pump - the tire doesn't visibly move anymore, but you can feel that you're inputting that laaaaast small bit of pressure into the tire. There's something satisfying about feeling the internal pressure yield to the extra little smooth input.
 

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Pushing also increases your draw length. Problematic with barebow shooters, but for clicker shooters it may result in the clicker going off earlier than expected
 

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I have tried pushing as a primary technique (but not now) and have used/continued to use it as Plan B when I'm struggling to pull through the clicker on a shot. My experience the downsides to pushing are (a) consistency of push and (b) wearing yourself out pushing (which are mutually disruptive, that is, when you get tired it gets harder to push "just so" and vice versa). Just like you want a consistent anchor and release, if you are pushing the bow forward, that has to be consistent too or you get variation of shot and results at the target. I think it's harder to push consistently than to pull consistently.

I would separate out collapse from follow through or effort in push or pull. My experience on exhausted days one can put in high effort to get the clicker off, decent release with follow through, then drop from exhaustion just after, and blow it still. It helps to work through the clicker but if you don't finish it off it guarantees nothing.
 

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as kind of a corollary, as I get older I find that the biggest inconsistency is not pulling or pushing, but being able to hold my core/torso at the same tension stability from shot to shot. A tiny tremor or wiggle in my torso results in bigger wiggle across my shoulders, with the expected negative outcome.

But, if I am having trouble getting through the clicker, if I concentrate on keeping my inner core firm and expanding, it helps my upper body relax and the clicker goes off easier and smoother
 

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as kind of a corollary, as I get older I find that the biggest inconsistency is not pulling or pushing, but being able to hold my core/torso at the same tension stability from shot to shot. A tiny tremor or wiggle in my torso results in bigger wiggle across my shoulders, with the expected negative outcome.

But, if I am having trouble getting through the clicker, if I concentrate on keeping my inner core firm and expanding, it helps my upper body relax and the clicker goes off easier and smoother
I've just learned this recently. i'm amazed how much more consistent i am, not to mention my groups have tightened up
 

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Do you consider locking/setting the bow shoulder down? Will decrease draw length, but brings stability. In case you didn't see it before, search Youtube for "02 Archery GB how to coach Set Up" - sorry can't post links
 

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Do you consider locking/setting the bow shoulder down? Will decrease draw length, but brings stability. In case you didn't see it before, search Youtube for "02 Archery GB how to coach Set Up" - sorry can't post links
Compound only. Too much difficult to manage for cliker shooters. Only one that is really able to manage it with cliker is OH, Jin Hyek
 

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Pushing also increases your draw length. Problematic with barebow shooters, but for clicker shooters it may result in the clicker going off earlier than expected
Pete, not so much an overt 'pushing', but rather an 'internal pressurizing/swelling' - not to increase draw length, but rather to 'maintain it' so that the clicker goes off exactly when you expect it to, not later because 'being careful' is causing the archer's shoulder give up ground ever so slightly to his bow position
 

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Just one more way to look at it.

When I draw through my clicker, I do so like most archers by applying back tension, however something I notice in new archers at our club, is they seem to focus all that tension in there drawing side. If you split it and apply even tension to both sides of your back, your bow are does feel like its "pushing" on your bow, while your draw arm comes back.

That tension should stop your collapse too.
 

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Ric, you could do worse than contact Chris above about his linear draw process. He generally suggests it for people who have trouble getting in line (not a problem I've really had) - however I have found that the shot sequence he teaches has aided my bow shoulder stability A LOT - which is a problem I was well aware that I had.

Regards,

James
 
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