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None at all if you are capable of drawing the bow. But, if you've ruined your shoulders because you are drawing the harshest cams on the planet, you might not even be in front of such a nice critter.
 

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Moxie Antigen. Hoyt Carbon Spyder.
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Or at the moment of truth you can't get the bow draw in a controlled, inconspicuous manner... or your bow is so unforgiving that when your form falls apart in your excitement you choke on the shot... or it's so loud that the buck ducks the sound and you don't get the hit you want...
 

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Chad_BBSK
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Discussion Starter #5
and while I agree that this is one extreme to another. That describes a lot older bows compared to a new one. Are there top end flagship bows, or bows in general built today with those extremes? Loud, hard to draw and unforgiving?
 

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I never even know that I draw, it is just all of a sudden, the arrow is on its way.
 

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It may just be me but a 60#360 IBO Bow seems harder to draw than a 60# 330 IBO Bow.
 

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IMO it matters 100%. You really don't know how a bow shoots until you have the heart rate and adrenaline flowing. Some folks realize that can't pull their bow back because of the emotional overload.
 

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Or at the moment of truth you can't get the bow draw in a controlled, inconspicuous manner... or your bow is so unforgiving that when your form falls apart in your excitement you choke on the shot... or it's so loud that the buck ducks the sound and you don't get the hit you want...
This , at 15 yards and you come hard into your stops or cables and it makes that small noise = 150+ is gone
 

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Moxie Antigen. Hoyt Carbon Spyder.
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and while I agree that this is one extreme to another. That describes a lot older bows compared to a new one. Are there top end flagship bows, or bows in general built today with those extremes? Loud, hard to draw and unforgiving?
The newest bows are amazing compared to what we had even 10 years ago for the level of performance you get. However I believe that when you push the envelope to the edge to get every extra fps: max poundage you can draw when you are practicing in a tee shirt on a warm evening, no silencing materials on your string, when it's time to make it happen after you've been in the stand cold, cramped and stiff after a lot of hours sitting still and that great buck is right under you it's better to have a set up that's easier to control.
 

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IMO it matters 100%. You really don't know how a bow shoots until you have the heart rate and adrenaline flowing. Some folks realize that can't pull their bow back because of the emotional overload.
See on the last couple deer I have shot, I have noticed (luckily for me) the opposite. In the cold with all my gear on if I just practiced drawing with nothing around it would take a lot of effort to get the bow back quietly. But when I was actually drawing on the deer, it felt like I have 10 lbs less of draw weight. Which I can only imagine was a product of adrenaline working for me rather than against me.
 

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Chad_BBSK
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Discussion Starter #13
The newest bows are amazing compared to what we had even 10 years ago for the level of performance you get. However I believe that when you push the envelope to the edge to get every extra fps: max poundage you can draw when you are practicing in a tee shirt on a warm evening, no silencing materials on your string, when it's time to make it happen after you've been in the stand cold, cramped and stiff after a lot of hours sitting still and that great buck is right under you it's better to have a set up that's easier to control.
Good post
I'm not here to argue just playing a little devils advocate. Most of the examples above are from one extreme to another. I'm really asking (for example) is there really a diff. between the bowtech draw cycle / hump/ vibe compared to a Mathews, or Hoyt and visa versa that would play a significant difference at go-time
 

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Chad_BBSK
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Discussion Starter #14
See on the last couple deer I have shot, I have noticed (luckily for me) the opposite. In the cold with all my gear on if I just practiced drawing with nothing around it would take a lot of effort to get the bow back quietly. But when I was actually drawing on the deer, it felt like I have 10 lbs less of draw weight. Which I can only imagine was a product of adrenaline working for me rather than against me.
agree
 

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The newest bows are amazing compared to what we had even 10 years ago for the level of performance you get. However I believe that when you push the envelope to the edge to get every extra fps: max poundage you can draw when you are practicing in a tee shirt on a warm evening, no silencing materials on your string, when it's time to make it happen after you've been in the stand cold, cramped and stiff after a lot of hours sitting still and that great buck is right under you it's better to have a set up that's easier to control.
Good post
I'm not here to argue just playing a little devils advocate. Most of the examples above are from one extreme to another. I'm really asking (for example) is there really a diff. between the bowtech draw cycle / hump/ vibe compared to a Mathews, or Hoyt and visa versa that would play a significant difference at go-time
Harsh Draw cycle and short valley are things that can certainly have the potential to ruin a opporatunity. The vibration to me is more about pleasurability of practicing with your bow at home. The less vibration maybe the more you shoot thus being a better shot?
 

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Moxie Antigen. Hoyt Carbon Spyder.
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Good post
I'm not here to argue just playing a little devils advocate. Most of the examples above are from one extreme to another. I'm really asking (for example) is there really a diff. between the bowtech draw cycle / hump/ vibe compared to a Mathews, or Hoyt and visa versa that would play a significant difference at go-time
You are right on here! On AT we tend to get lost in making mountains out of mole hills about the minute differences between the latest/ greatest bows from every company. Truth is they ALL are amazing compared to where we came from a short time ago. But it's now the off season and time for the enthusiast to start getting ramped up and excited for next year. The toys are a big part of the fun for many archers. I like to say that everyone needs to find what the edge of THEIR envelope is as to what poundage they can shoot well, then take your set up one step back from there for your time in the treestand. All the practice and prep and experimenting is all part of the fun!
 

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I read all these post on draw cycle, hump at the end, vibe and so on. How much of this matters when a 150 inch plus is standing at 15 yards?
A lot. If you've been sitting for 5 hrs in sub temps and only draw the bow back once, you're exaggerated movements can get you spotted vs a smooth draw.

So let me ask you this, does a 150" deer spook at 15 yards if he sees you? Survey says....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Adrenaline is an amazing drug... when I'm drawing back on a deer even a doe it feels like I'm pulling 10 lbs. I'm not horribly comfortable 25' up in a tree but setting up to take a shot on a deer I can hang my toes over the stand and lean around the tree if needed... always wear a harness which gives added confidence.
 

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I read all these post on draw cycle, hump at the end, vibe and so on. How much of this matters when a 150 inch plus is standing at 15 yards?
A lot. If you've been sitting for 5 hrs in sub temps and only draw the bow back once, you're exaggerated movements can get you spotted vs a smooth draw.

So let me ask you this, does a 150" deer spook at 15 yards if he sees you? Survey says....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And for this reason is why I shot my switchback for ten years. That exact situation came upon me 3 years ago, and yes he was 150 pny. I couldn't find a bow out there that I could draw nearly as smooth as that bow. My eyes never left the deer, all geared up, mind racing, drew ever so smooth and slow,.... I moved on to a halon 32 this year and I'm purposely trying to get my heart rate up while shooting, and doing so after I'm tired and sick of shooting. I know there's no replacement for seeing an animal in front of you but I do my best to mimic the situation the best I can. After shooting this bow for a few weeks now I'm finally getting the draw down to slow and steady...... But man there's nothing like having a huge white tail in the sight, just make sure whatever you're shooting has that perfect draw for you when that stressful moment comes
 

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Here is the problem with a harsh draw cycle: it's not about that instant when the 150 is there so much as all the practice time you put in to be ready for him. If you are like me and have old, worn out joints, a smooth draw cycle means the ability to do more, and more productive, practice. Then when the 150 steps out, I'm on autopilot.

I've also found that smooth is an individual thing, at least for me. Some bows are very smooth to most, but for me the peak of the draw cycle just happens at the wrong time. My sons both shoot Hoyt bows. Few would argue that Hoyt doesn't make a great bow, but they just don't work for me. After about three shots, I am done. The peak hits at a place that just gives me too much shoulder pain. I really wanted to like Hoyt since both boys do, but Hoyt just didn't like me. I ended up with a PSE Surge, a bow valued at about 1/3 that of my son's flagship Hoyts. I can shoot it for long periods of time without pain, so I do. I took the buck in my avatar with it this year. I honestly don't remember the draw cycle or even the release that day. I just knew where I thought he would stop and when he did there was suddenly pink fletchings sticking out of his side. Thirty yards and under 60 seconds later, he was having a dirt nap on my field road.

Could I have done it with a Hoyt? Maybe, but I wouldn't want to risk it on maybe. I'm not slamming Hoyt, just saying the don't fit ME. That's why there are so many bows from so many companies. They are all good, but all are not good for everyone. Confidence is everything in a hunting situation, so I'd say a cycle you are comfortable enough with to put in the necessary practice time to build confidence is extremely important.
 
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