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Gold Supporting Archer
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I’m honestly not sure how they could make the ventum 33 better lol. But I said the same thing about the axius ultra. Hopefully we get a quiet carbon bow. I want one so bad but everyone I shoot is just so loud compared to their aluminum siblings.


I'm going to guess and say you haven't been shooting many Hoyt bows the last 20 years correct ?

here's a few things to keep in mind when you say what you said. I will not argue against the Ventum being a great bow. But back up a few years and you will see some absolutely incredible bows that Hoyt introduced.

2014 Hoyt took their all time #1 selling bow the Spyder,and drop it from the metal riser line (bonehead move I know),and used that name to introduce a new line of Carbon bows in place of the Element called the Carbon Spyder series, 3 bows. Using a Z5 cam hybrid system. They were super light weight, and SMOKED with speed.

todays Hoyts use binary systems that necessitate the changing of shims in order to tweak the bow during tuning set up. Gone are the days of getting the axle very close shim/spacer wise and using your yokes to tweak the tune. Hoyt is elemental in this. PSE and Bowtech both have features to make this process seemless. So starting with a system to tweak the tune of the cam without having to remove the whole shim in place for another shim is certainly called for.

Talk carbon ? Hoyt's carbon bows weight as much as some metal bows. Why ? Because morons complained the Hoyt carbons were too light and hard to hold on target. These morons could have added weight and we could have had the option to those who wanted to continue to have a 35 axle Matrix being lighter than 30 inch axle bows. Instead, Hoyt added aluminum to the limbs pockets and the carbon bows being shorter on axle weigh too much,before adding a stabilizer.

Speed on Hoyts are holding fast and thats great. Tweak the cam system shimming nd lighten up the carbon to day of old.
 

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Gold Supporting Archer
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Hoyt has simply got to somehow advance the shim situation. Whether they mimic a yoking like PSE created or simply pay PSE to use it.

The PSE yoking called the “Buss Cable Technology” is the single most game changer to shims. Bowtech’s system is ok but dare I say not as precise as using double yokes ? Plus the Bowtech can strip out while the PSE is string.

Hoyt adds something to the Ventum such as the PSE buss cable yoking will be a game changer. I’ve seen too many people on here struggling with shims. A purer science for the manufacturing to the customer is a must in order to stop the bad reviews.

Speaking of the Ventum ? Who agrees with me Hoyt took an old riser from what appears to be the original 2013 Spyder/ 2014 Facktor and put it thru some computer imagining and advanced it with bridging and vibration canceling engineering to come up with the Ventum riser.

What about using the original Carbon Matrix and doing the same thing and making the most advanced carbon riser ever made in say 2 axle lengths, 35 and 32. Lite weight unlike the heavy WRX series of heavy limb pocket carbons.

The issue just might be that with carbon, Hoyt isn’t making any of the riser and experimental carbon might be hard to tinker ? Maybe it’s time Hoyt makes the carbon state side from the Easton factory ? I can see a thinner thicker tube with bridges on the Matrix. Maybe filling sections selectively depending on computer imagining.

Hoyt needs to carbon up because PSE is gaining carbon market share using a carbon boat oar. That’s sad.


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Gold Supporting Archer
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Here’s the first review of the new Mathews.

This agrees well with what I e been saying for years about the Mathews construct. The riser is over built and elongated. The rest of the bow is scrimped down including the stubby limbs.

This bow popped during review after not many shots.



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Ventum series is amazing, but I would wait and see if they make some refinements.

The whole Ventum concept was a re-imagining of the old Hoyt Spyder riser from 2013. That process gave me ideas that maybe Hoyt would re-image thru computerized technology the Carbon Matrix riser and get back to a longer axle lite weight carbon bow with bridge work like what came out of the Ventum/Spyder work. Hoyt has some older risers that actually when run thru computer imagining with vibration, can redesign and update and make some bad arse bows,,,,and cams as well.

Taking a hybrid system and duplicating the bottom cam onto the top thereby making it a two cam binary,very well can make some interesting things. I'm thinking for instance of a Z5 cam bottom and top,disgard the original smaller top cam, stringing it as a binary string stop system and using some sort of dual yoke system to adjust cam lean like PSE uses. That would be something I'd snap up in a second. Call the cam the Z6 so we all know where it originated from and the riser the Matrum. lol
 

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Gold Supporting Archer
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What a bunch of pussies, "oooh the hoyt carbon bows are too heavy". Weight saving is not the only reason to make a bow completely out of carbon, it is also because it has higher tensile strength than aluminium. An all carbon bow that weighs the same as an aluminium bow is at least 3 times stronger. The rx5 is the Superman of compound bows, indestructible.
Pussies ? Really ? New Hoyt carbons are too heavy. Not too heavy that I’m too ***** to carry one. I think if I can still bench press 300 and shoot 80 pounds I’m strong enough to carry a heavy carbon Hoyt.

Heck, my sidearm Delta Elite 10mm is heavier than a bow.

Point is ? You MISSED the point ! Aluminum is established and durable. Why then do I want to spend 50% more and get a carbon bow ?

If weight is comparable it’s stupid. If I’m worried about a cold riser, that might be *****.

I want a carbon on account it was revolutionary and weighed like air. It was interesting to have such a lite bow. I could adjust weight adds where I wanted it.

Hoyt took all that away with the Wrx series bows. So I pass. I’ll shoot a Ventum or my PSE EVL 32 first.

Get me back a revised 35 inch Matrix !! Make it lite, make it strong , like me. Run it over with a truck and dry fire it 100x’s. I’m in. If not, I’ll stay with my Carbon Spyder Turbo Z5 snd Element RKT. 500x better bows imho.


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Gold Supporting Archer
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Why I love binary’s on a hunting bow, shim once and done
I like the idea of 2 identically sized cams top and bottom. Granted the hybrid is a touch faster because the smaller cam helps turn the cams. Noticing binary are starting to weigh their cams to assist in cam rotation. Both PSE and Hoyt have added cam bulk


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Gold Supporting Archer
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Not with a binary. There is no yoke to stretch. So the center shot is not going to change and there will be no need to reshim it. Only time you might have to possibly reshim once it’s set is a limb change.


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Welllllllll

Yeah but nahhhh.

Shims hold the cams great. String material is always the weakest link on a bow.

Hence cable stretch upper or lower can can nock point as well as throw off cam timing.

So being all bows are subject to string material stretching/creeeping, all bows are going to come out of tune to some degree. Variables usually pertain to how much string twisting a string has. The more or I should say over twisting of strings to resemble the “rope” look, tend to under pressure uncoil faster and make movement.

Strings are the weakest part of a bow’s tune health. Shims help because it eliminates a yoke on 1 end. But because the cams are identical sized top and bottom, rotation isn’t as fast as a system with 1 cam smaller than the other as a hybrid unless it’s an abomination conversion like the K&K bow.

I actually like the PSE EVL and Elite systems right now. Hoyts system is lagging. Bowtech is decent. Mathews top hats are fine as well.

I’m disappointed Hoyt didn’t address shims. Instead sliding the cams over to a side for bigger sight window I feel will put more pressure on the axle and limbs ? Not a fan of this personally. But we shall see. Hoyt generally is tight with engineering.


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Gold Supporting Archer
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I am in agreement with Trial on this.I’ve been shooting compound bows pretty since they went mainstream.

Yep, Jimmy is right. Every year they were “the most quiet, vibe free bow we’ve ever built”.

So throw vibration away because I shot teeth rattling bows for decades. PSE GForce for example ? Sounded like a .22 magnum. But was deadly. That was what matters.

Yeah I suffered sore elbows from the vibration. Big deal. I shot them well.

Mathews been making a dead in your hand bow for many years now. How ? They use a heavy arse riser. There’s no other way to absorb vibration. It takes bulk.

Bows are vibe free enough across the board thru computer imaging. Bows have receded in speed lately. My 2014 Hoyt Z5 cam turbo had a 340 ibo that it hits. My 2015 Obsession Evolution 350 ibo that hits it.

My 2021 PSE EVL 32 @ 80 pounds is about a 338 ibo ?


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While some of the things you’re speaking about are true at a very micro scale of tuning, there’s nothing in there, even regarding minuscule string stretch which will affect tuning so much that you couldn’t account for it with a 1/64” rest move.

And yes, I check tune on my bows periodically through each year. They simply don’t move to a measurable degree. When most people encounter tune shift in a binary, it’s typically a small form shift which has occurred, and I’m confident mine isn’t with a Xero A1i Pro because I have a visual indicator for it each time I trigger the rangefinder.

So this talk about shims really isn’t a critical discussion, regardless of how many what-ifs get thrown about. It’s a simple and effective solution to something that shouldn’t be a frequent touch point.

One thing that I think is telling reading through this thread… those of us who have actually shot the bows have a general consensus that it’s the best shot experience available right now. That’s fun to see in a world where people can’t seem to agree on many things these days.
Before I move a rest on a string creeped bow, I’m pressing it and twisting string. I’ve never been one to monkey with a rest after I had the bow dead nuts thru paper and walk back ( yeah I’m old school).
To your point concerning strings ? Materials are better and string makers are prestretching @ higher pressure. We are in a great time for strings right now.

I went back to pse this year and shooting factory strings for the first time since 2001. I’ve had to press the bow once to adjust it since May. That’s quality in string work.


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