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Hoyt Experts Help With Nock Right Tear

5648 Views 44 Replies 22 Participants Last post by  Reverend
I recently got an 05 VTec, and was hoping to get some tuning info. When paper tuning, it's shooting nock right. I’ve been able to correct most of it, but in comparison to my Ultratec, my rest position seems too far off. The arrow’s center right now sits at 7/8 in. from riser. Isn't this too far? Do you have any suggestions? It’s giving me decent tears, at this setting, but it just doesn’t look right. Here’s my current setup:
29 in RH Vtec @ 65#.
28 in. Easton ACC’s 3-49 with 100 gr. tips. (Also have 3-60’s, same result)
Cam & ½ at 75% let-off.
Golden Key Platinum Premier Rest
Scoot Little Bitty Goose with String loop

I’ve powder tested it and seem to be getting perfect clearance. And read some other posts about timing. My timing seems to be perfect too. Any other suggestions?
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· Reverend
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I checked for cam lean yesterday to see if the string was inline with my relaese. It looked ok, nice and straight.

Also, is it possible that a bow this new, with less than 300 arrows shot through it have bent axles?
 

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it would be unlikely, but I guess it is always possible. You might try letting someone else shoot it and see if they get the same tear. It seems to me having your rest that far from the riser is a little to far out. Try moving it back to 3/4" and moving it in a little and see what happens
 

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3/4 to center of arrow from riser is correct center shot starting point... if you must move the rest more than 1/32" then you have a spine problem or a grip torque problem 99.9% of the time. With the 3-60 A/C/C you should be ok... but to check you can lower the draw weight a couple of turns...
By the way it is best to bottom the limbs out then back off the bolts evenly, I mark mine with whiteout or nail polish...

Of course this is considering that you have check for proper timing and the string has the proper # of twists to reduce string slap...
 

· Reverend
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
OK,
I started all over... but still get a (1 in.) nock right tear. This is what I've done:
1. Bottomed out the limbs, marked a reference point, then backed them out evenly to desired weight of 65#.
2. Checked timing as I came to full draw. Both cams rollover at the same time.
3. Set arrow rest 3/4 in. from riser, for starters.
4. Set nocking point square, with a 1/16 gap on my string loop to eliminate excessive nock pinch.

Still I get nock right tear... so I moved rest to the left, to about 13/16 in. Same tear. I shot a bare shaft to make sure I wasn't getting a clearance problem... you guessed it, same tear.

The only difference in tear patterns occurs when I purposely torque the grip... add more pressure to my thumb. Then Wala! Perfect bullet hole! The problem with this is that I can't duplicate that same exact pressure every shot. Sometimes it's more, at others it's less. And it doesn't feel as though I have a relaxed grip.

The last thing I tried was going to a stiffer arrow (ACC 3-60's). Instead of nock right, I get a nock high with a slight right tear.

Do any of you have any more suggestions?
 

· Reverend
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As I mentioned, since trying the stiffer arrow (3-60), I get more of a nock high tear, with a slight right tear... certainly better than than the 3-49's. My problem is that in order to correct this tear I'd have to move my nocking point below square. It's square right now. Do you think that is acceptable?

Looking through other posts, your's included Javi (which have been increbly helpful), I also tried adding twists to my string, I added about 10 twists, which resulted in a full twist every 7/8 in. Still same result. So I went back to original setup (1 full twist per inch).

The only thing I haven't tried is taking off the cams to see if my axles are bent. I'm willing to do that if need be... it's just that I have a portable bowmaster press, and although I've done it with other bows in the past, I can't imagine that such a new bow has bend axles. I'm kind of leaving it as a last resort.
 

· X's R Us
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Reverend said:
As I mentioned, since trying the stiffer arrow (3-60), I get more of a nock high tear, with a slight right tear... certainly better than than the 3-49's. My problem is that in order to correct this tear I'd have to move my nocking point below square. It's square right now. Do you think that is acceptable?

Looking through other posts, your's included Javi (which have been increbly helpful), I also tried adding twists to my string, I added about 10 twists, which resulted in a full twist every 7/8 in. Still same result. So I went back to original setup (1 full twist per inch).

The only thing I haven't tried is taking off the cams to see if my axles are bent. I'm willing to do that if need be... it's just that I have a portable bowmaster press, and although I've done it with other bows in the past, I can't imagine that such a new bow has bend axles. I'm kind of leaving it as a last resort.
Tried less spring tension on the rest? Do you punch the release or get a suprise release? If punch have someone else activate the trigger while you aim at the paper. The chances of you torquing it will lessen. Then if tear improves your torquing it when you shoot.
 

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I don't have the software, but the 3-49s might be a bit on the stiff side at that shaft length, and the 3-60s would definitely be over the top. You may have a situation where you are bouncing the tail end of your arrows off the rest, with the 3-49s just ever so slightly and the 3-60s hard enogh to show up with a high tear.

I would suggest adding a bunch of point weight and/or cranking up the peak weight to see what effect these things have. If it starts bringing it in closer to what you want, then you may be on to a spine issue, But if it doesn't help you just have to put it back to where you were.
 

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I don't know if this will help you or not but I also struggle with nock right tears and for me the cause is grip torque. To correct it I need to make sure I am FIRMLY back against the "wall" during my release. In my situation the firm back tension against the wall seems to counteract the torque I unconciously apply to the grip with my bow hand. If I creep ever so slightly, I get a nock right tear and a little wobble to my arrow in flight. I fought the arrow spine/centershot battle for a long time before I figured this out. I wanted to find a hardware solution, but the problem was my form(or lack therof...).

I also agree your arrows are spined correctly, especially the 3-60's. I can shoot either 3-49's or 3-60's @28.5" and 55#. Good luck :) .
 

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I had the same problem, I shortened my draw length 1/2" and the tear went away. I think the longer draw was causing me to torque the bow slightly.

I was shooting a Ultratec w/XT 2000 limbs and a Trophy Taker drop away rest.

Darrel
 

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get some help from a friend or a knowledgable shooter to watch you.
youcan be punching and torqueing.
i had a friend who was ahving the same problem. i shot his bow, bullet hole. he was torqueing.
changed his grip now he shoots great and gets waaay better groups.
good luck.
you could also post a pic of your grip.
 

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I personally think too much emphasis is put on paper tuning. It is afine starting point, but, if your arrows are grouping good then why keep frustrating yourself? I had the opportunity to attend a class held by Jay Barrs a few years ago. He stated that "If your arrows have no correction they have no direction" meaning you need to put your fletchings to work as soon as possible coming out of the bow. After setting up my bows and group tuning I always end up with a high left tear. When I tried to paper tune first my groups are never as good as they are after group tuning.
 

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Reverend, Take this for what it's worth. According to the easton shaft chart the recomended shaft is the 3-39 for your setup. You don't get into the 3-49 shaft until you reach 70#. With no clearance problems the right tear would mean a stiff arrow reaction. It has always seemed to me that any hoyt I've ever owned has been partial to arrows on the weak side. Increase your weight to 70# and shoot through paper. If no change in tear try a 3-39 shaft just for giggles, after all what could it hurt. I've encounterd the same problems you speak of. As a last ditch effort when all else fails I've gone to a star hunter rest. Any right tear was eliminated.
 

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Like Javi said, no way the 3-49's are too stiff. On all 4 Hoyt's in my house, a right tear is an indication of a WEAK arrow, just the opposite of Easton's tuning guide I believe. The easiest way to rule out a spine problem, in my opinion, is to drop the poundage, say 5-6 #'s, and see what it does for the tear. I have also found that weak shafts will give false indications concerning your nocking point height, ie.- that your nock point needs to go lower when in fact it doesn't.
 
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