Archery Talk Forum banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi everyone
I have this [email protected]" carbon laminated recurve, and I want to reach the fastest arrow speed shot by hand (minimum gpp, no compounds, no footbows category)
any ideas how to design an arrow for this record?
im thinking of 100 grain arrow with 32 inches long with an overdraw device but how do i make it stiff enough?

i have heavier bows but those are less efficient than this bow, since this one is carbon laminated
my goal is to reach 400 fps, which i believe exceed the current world record for non-compound, non-footbow category. I found even my 170lb bow cannot shoot as fast as this bow, mainly cuz that one is made of wood/bamboo


here is the bow Heaviest Korean Warbow? [email protected]" Joseon Archery Test - YouTube
 

· (aka lug nut)
Joined
·
54,875 Posts
Hi everyone
I have this [email protected]" carbon laminated recurve, and I want to reach the fastest arrow speed shot by hand (minimum gpp, no compounds, no footbows category)
any ideas how to design an arrow for this record?
im thinking of 100 grain arrow with 32 inches long with an overdraw device but how do i make it stiff enough?

i have heavier bows but those are less efficient than this bow, since this one is carbon laminated
my goal is to reach 400 fps, which i believe exceed the current world record for non-compound, non-footbow category. I found even my 170lb bow cannot shoot as fast as this bow, mainly cuz that one is made of wood/bamboo


here is the bow Heaviest Korean Warbow? [email protected]" Joseon Archery Test - YouTube
Look at flight arrows...where they are trying to reach max distance.
The shorter the arrow, the lower the mass.
The lower the mass, the faster the arrow speed.

You want "proper spine" for maximum flight efficiency (cleanest arrow flight).
Cleanest arrow flight, means least wasted energy, so more arrow speed.

Why do you want a 32" long arrow?
Ever see a flight arrow 32-inches long? Never.

7440393
 

· (aka lug nut)
Joined
·
54,875 Posts
Nice writeup for Turkish Flight Arrows.
Average distance flown by the flight arrow was 850 yards.


Length: 25 1/2 to 25 3/4 inches.
Weight: 7 drs. avoirdupois (191 grains).
Balance Point: 12 inches from end of nock.
Shape: Barrelled, and much tapered from balancing-point to its ends; its sharp ivory point being only 1/8 inch in diameter (where it is fitted to the shaft) and 1/4 inch in length. The part of the shaft to which the feathers are attached is 3/16 inch in diameter, and the centre of the shaft, 5/16 inch.

These Turkish Flight Arrows are running from 2.9% to 3.4% FOC.
The arrows are barreled, like a Javelin....like a very very stretched out football.
REason for this shape, is that a barreled arrow is very aerodynamically clean...meaning less trailing vortices, minimum drag.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
10,523 Posts
I could be remembering this wrong, but I thought I read once when KS shot either the speed or distance record the fletching he used were actually trimmed down razor blades... Anyone confirm or refute??
 

· Back Yard Champion
Joined
·
36,021 Posts
I could be remembering this wrong, but I thought I read once when KS shot either the speed or distance record the fletching he used were actually trimmed down razor blades... Anyone confirm or refute??
Yes, Kelly, trimmed down razor blades are used. Kevin noted, here on AT, noted this years ago. Also used for vanes are pieces cut from the disc in floppy discs.
 

· Registered
PSE Ferocity, Elite Enlist, some KTBs
Joined
·
299 Posts
"Fastest speed" says not much about the projectile, nor if the bow is supposed to survive the attempt.
Current crossbow models shoot at a gpp of about 2, with overbred recurve models having durability issues.
If the projectil speed is measured within the first yard(s), fletching is not important.
Perhaps the Korean idea of Pyeonjeon/Tong-ah is something for you: Pyeonjeon - Wikipedia
 

· Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
"Fastest speed" says not much about the projectile, nor if the bow is supposed to survive the attempt.
Current crossbow models shoot at a gpp of about 2, with overbred recurve models having durability issues.
If the projectil speed is measured within the first yard(s), fletching is not important.
Perhaps the Korean idea of Pyeonjeon/Tong-ah is something for you: Pyeonjeon - Wikipedia
its a record nobody has bothered to register officially so it would be something im interested. there is already fierce competition in distance and draw weight records, the latter im working on.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Look at flight arrows...where they are trying to reach max distance.
The shorter the arrow, the lower the mass.
The lower the mass, the faster the arrow speed.

You want "proper spine" for maximum flight efficiency (cleanest arrow flight).
Cleanest arrow flight, means least wasted energy, so more arrow speed.

Why do you want a 32" long arrow?
Ever see a flight arrow 32-inches long? Never.

View attachment 7440393
since the goal is max speed and not distance, wouldn't it be easily achievable to get an unfletched carbon arrow to very light weights, u can even have no arrow point in theory
 

· (aka lug nut)
Joined
·
54,875 Posts
since the goal is max speed and not distance, wouldn't it be easily achievable to get an unfletched carbon arrow to very light weights, u can even have no arrow point in theory
How do you think you get MAX distance?
You get max distance with MAX SPEED.

To get max DISTANCE, you need MAX SPEED and correct arrow launch angle.
You can aim dead LEVEL, and still have the same MAX SPEED...just will not hit MAX distance.

MAX DISTANCE comes from MAX speed.
MAX SPEED and distance comes from the arrow design.

So, same answer. Look at FLIGHT arrows, for MAX speed.

No arrow point, will be EXTREMELY LOUSY aerodynamics.
Cuz you are shooting your arrows on planet earth, in an atmosphere, your "theory" would only apply in a vacuum.
Unfletched arrows fly CRAPPY in an atmosphere, cuz the slightest disturbance will cause the Un-Fletched arrow to tumble, to spiral.

If the unfletched arrow starts to spiral, you create shaft drag..unstable shaft drag, and you lose MAX SPEED.
So, one more time,
look to FLIGHT archery arrows, for proper arrow design for MAX SPEED, which creates MAX DISTANCE,
when you get the correct Launch angle.

Since you don't care about MAX distance,
ignore Flight Archery launch angles
and just focus on the HOWS and WHYS for flight arrow design.

Need fletching to create stabilization, for optimum flight, for MAX speed.
Since you don't have PERFECT form, you need the fletching to stabilize the arrow for stable flight, for MAX speed.
Fletching makes the arrow more forgiving. Means slightly SUCKY form, you still get close to MAX speed....when using vanes.

IF you perfect your shooting FORM,
then, the arrows with fletching will get closer to MAX speed.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
16,179 Posts
Hi everyone
I have this [email protected]" carbon laminated recurve, and I want to reach the fastest arrow speed shot by hand (minimum gpp, no compounds, no footbows category)
any ideas how to design an arrow for this record?
im thinking of 100 grain arrow with 32 inches long with an overdraw device but how do i make it stiff enough?

i have heavier bows but those are less efficient than this bow, since this one is carbon laminated
my goal is to reach 400 fps, which i believe exceed the current world record for non-compound, non-footbow category. I found even my 170lb bow cannot shoot as fast as this bow, mainly cuz that one is made of wood/bamboo


here is the bow Heaviest Korean Warbow? [email protected]" Joseon Archery Test - YouTube
i think Kevin Strother used razor blades for fletchings when he broke the compound speed record, so you should probably incorparate that into your arrow :LOL: hope your bow has a shelf...
 

· Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
since the goal is max speed and not distance, wouldn't it be easily achievable to get an unfletched carbon arrow to very light weights, u can even have no arrow point in theory
Only just saw your post - if you've already set the record then congratulations, what did you use? Otherwise -
Yes. As long as you are going for speed only (measured with a chronograph a few feet away) and don't care about distance and are willing to potentially reduce the lifespan of the bow.

While arrows used for flight records are definitely very fast, that doesn't mean they're also fastest out of the gate since they have to be optimised for both mass and drag. For your speed record you only care about mass and it doesn't matter if the drag is terrible and the loses most of that speed after a few dozen yards.

I've shot bareshaft Al/carbon arrows with no point (weighing 186 grains) through a chronograph for an experiment, its perfectly safe as long as the bow can handle the extra energy going into it, you protect any skin that could get hit if it went wrong, and the target is just beyond the chronograph since the arrow has no aerodynamic stability and would probably tumble in flight if you let it. I got 230fps with my generic olympic-style recurve with carbon limbs and 41lbs on the fingers. If your 130lb @33" bow has a similar draw force curve and limb mass to mine then you'd be able to get away with a pretty standard 300-320 grain arrow and still hit 400 fps. I can't tell from your video how your bow's efficiency compares but from the chrono speeds it looks like something more like 200-330gr might work and would be a lot more buildable and safer for you and the bow than 100gr.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top