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Gold Supporting Archer
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Dang...that sounds like what I need. I shot a buck this fall at 15 yards in the shoulder and didn't even get a pass through and broke the arrow. Time to start shopping around. Thank you.

Having a heavy arrow, is just a starter to the penetration scheme we tinker with. As mentioned above, the FMJ will not give you cray FOC on account they are a heavy overall arrow per inch. Something like 12.3 grains a inch ? While a carbon arrow will be 7-9 grains an inch. The factor is the metal in the FMJ gives you smashability into bone that a carbon might not withstand. Sure a FMJ will bend. I don't take these guys like Ranch Fairy, who I really like,saying how a FMJ will explode. I killed 100's of animals with both the FMJ and it's daddy the ACC. I think most of these failures if they are true, is epoxy related. I glue the snot out of my HIT inserts. Not once on my EYES,have I ever had a FMJ or ACC failure.

With the heavy arrow being a key to momentum, which I feel thats starters. #1 is to tune your bow and make sure it's a bullet hole thru paper bareshaft and with vanes. Do a thorough walk back making sure your bow and 3rd axis etc got you shooting straight down range.

You cannot expect penetration if you have a wobbly, arrow hitting. You want that arrow hitting and the back end of the arrow pushing the front thru.

Your FOC will be 12%-15% depending on finished product. I have 664 grain 200 spine carbon shafts with 100 grain inserts and 150 grain broadheads that do not penetrate more than my FMJ's. I even made a 200 brass insert arrow that is 25% FOC. I'll take the FMJ 5mm.

Kid that hunts with me,big kid,30.5 draw, just put 80 pound limbs on his 34 EVL uses those micro diameter Black Eagle, and before that Victory shafts when the bow was 70 pounds. I don't disagree with the stiffness of the shaft. What I don't like is I think they are TOO THIN for smashing bone and won't flex as well as a fatter shaft will. Well lo and behold, he snapped one off shooting a Iguana by the lake in his back yard. I told him these arrows are not going to work so great on big boar hogs I don't think. I might be wrong. I recommended he move to a .024 shaft from the .166 shaft. I think the wider shaft can absorb more impact then a ultra thin shaft. We shall see.

So make sure your bow is dead nuts tuning wise first and foremost. FMJ will not be a huge mover in FOC, but will be huge on momentum,and that means it's a hard arrow to stop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
what broadhead are you shooting?


honestly. i dont think heavier is going to solve this issue for you. you are already reasonably heavy with a 31" FMJ. if you are shooting a mech, a modestly sized cut on contact point may help, but not solve your issues. crap still happens.

and this is why i asked... i feel like a lot of time archers (myself included) have a bad experience and look for ways to completely avoid their latest catastrophe. maybe a heavier arrow would help. or maybe a lighter arrow would have helped by shooting flatter and just missing the obstruction. see what im saying? dont go looking for a fix to these issues that are just bad luck, youll likely create other issues.

that said, i still think you are under spined. get into a stiffer arrow. i shoot a 300 spine black eagle with 225 up front. 30" draw, 70lbs. i think the IBO on my frankenbow is pretty slow. but i also have my arrows cut significantly shorter than yours. i think you could shorten up a 300 to stiffen the spine. if you like shooting a longer arrow and still want to add weight, definitely go to 280-260 spine. even with 225 up front my total arrow weight is only 500 grain. personally... i like to build an arrow in that 260-280 fps range with a good cut on contact head. and spend the time getting them to fly right. FOC and total arrow weight are not a thought. with our draw length and poundage, and reasonably light GPI shaft is going to weigh plenty for deer and have enough FOC to satisfy everyone but the most extreme crazies.
Thanks for all this info. very helpful
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Having a heavy arrow, is just a starter to the penetration scheme we tinker with. As mentioned above, the FMJ will not give you cray FOC on account they are a heavy overall arrow per inch. Something like 12.3 grains a inch ? While a carbon arrow will be 7-9 grains an inch. The factor is the metal in the FMJ gives you smashability into bone that a carbon might not withstand. Sure a FMJ will bend. I don't take these guys like Ranch Fairy, who I really like,saying how a FMJ will explode. I killed 100's of animals with both the FMJ and it's daddy the ACC. I think most of these failures if they are true, is epoxy related. I glue the snot out of my HIT inserts. Not once on my EYES,have I ever had a FMJ or ACC failure.

With the heavy arrow being a key to momentum, which I feel thats starters. #1 is to tune your bow and make sure it's a bullet hole thru paper bareshaft and with vanes. Do a thorough walk back making sure your bow and 3rd axis etc got you shooting straight down range.

You cannot expect penetration if you have a wobbly, arrow hitting. You want that arrow hitting and the back end of the arrow pushing the front thru.

Your FOC will be 12%-15% depending on finished product. I have 664 grain 200 spine carbon shafts with 100 grain inserts and 150 grain broadheads that do not penetrate more than my FMJ's. I even made a 200 brass insert arrow that is 25% FOC. I'll take the FMJ 5mm.

Kid that hunts with me,big kid,30.5 draw, just put 80 pound limbs on his 34 EVL uses those micro diameter Black Eagle, and before that Victory shafts when the bow was 70 pounds. I don't disagree with the stiffness of the shaft. What I don't like is I think they are TOO THIN for smashing bone and won't flex as well as a fatter shaft will. Well lo and behold, he snapped one off shooting a Iguana by the lake in his back yard. I told him these arrows are not going to work so great on big boar hogs I don't think. I might be wrong. I recommended he move to a .024 shaft from the .166 shaft. I think the wider shaft can absorb more impact then a ultra thin shaft. We shall see.

So make sure your bow is dead nuts tuning wise first and foremost. FMJ will not be a huge mover in FOC, but will be huge on momentum,and that means it's a hard arrow to stop.
Thanks for this. I will save this info for when I start putting together my new set up.
 

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Dang...that sounds like what I need. I shot a buck this fall at 15 yards in the shoulder and didn't even get a pass through and broke the arrow. Time to start shopping around. Thank you.
I'm not advocating making an intentional shoulder shot. Mine was a slight shoooter error. I either failed to level my peep, when I saw the buck look up at me, and/or I might have torqued slightly due to the awkward angle of the shot. It was supposed to hit 2-3 inches behind that shoulder. It's the first direct, onside, shoulder bone impact I've had in over 30 years of bowhunting. I was quite relieved to see that Magnus Stinger Buzzcut 4-blade blow right through both sides and hang in the fletching in his off shoulder. I'm sure my results might have been different, if I'd directly hit the perpendicular scapular ridge part of the bone. Still, I'm pretty sure it would have penetrated through and killed him.
 

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The Impartial Archer
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OP my bet is the arrows are so underspined your POI is off with broad heads. What broad head where you using? Being way underspined like that will cause the arrows to veer off wildly at distance and kill your penetration....and too me it looks like you are seeing that.

At 70 pounds and 30 inches with any bow out there and any arrow from 350 grains up you should be punching through deer like butter.........something bigger is going on IMO.

So what head?
 

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OK...I don't full understand the chart but good to know I'm way under-spined. So would 300 spine be better then? Also, if I'm at a 30 inch draw what do the stats say a good arrow length would be? Thank you!
I'm a 30" draw and on a 6.5 to 7" brace height bow I run a 29.25" arrow and tht gets me to where my carbon is flush with the front of the riser or right in there. Broadheads don't make me nervous there.
 

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I'm not advocating making an intentional shoulder shot. Mine was a slight shoooter error. I either failed to level my peep, when I saw the buck look up at me, and/or I might have torqued slightly due to the awkward angle of the shot. It was supposed to hit 2-3 inches behind that shoulder. It's the first direct, onside, shoulder bone impact I've had in over 30 years of bowhunting. I was quite relieved to see that Magnus Stinger Buzzcut 4-blade blow right through both sides and hang in the fletching in his off shoulder. I'm sure my results might have been different, if I'd directly hit the perpendicular scapular ridge part of the bone. Still, I'm pretty sure it would have penetrated through and killed him.

Funny you make mention of this. Being i'm in South Florida, my offseason is not "indoors" and my spring warm weather is not foam 3D. I hunt boar every weekend and sometimes during the week too.

Structure wise ? A boar's heart is basically right behind his shoulder when you are in elevation in a stand. I purposely these days smash the shoulder on every boar hog,pierce the heart and lungs. Most times I pass thru,sometimes he totes the arrow dragging behind him and the broadhead will "catch" on something and pull thru. He's dead, but just doesn't know it. Sure my FMJ is dead as well,but my broadhead I resharpen up.

A deer skeletal is far different than a hog. Deer shoulders have a super big sideways V. A hog doesn't. The heart on a deer is easily exposed,a hogs is covered I feel by God, because of their cutter fighting during their rut time. Hence the shield and the heart being tucked away. They do occassionally get poked under the shield up into the bottom of the heart and bleed out fighting, but rare.
 
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What are you hunting? Elephants? Your setup is fine for anything that walks on 4 legs already.
 

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If I were shooting 80#, 553 grains would have better trajectories than @ 65-68#. That would make sense.

Well sure, you'd have more draw force behind your arrow. Guys who have long arse arms all should be shooting 80 pounds. You guys are MONSTER if you're drawing 30 inches ! I'm like ***,,,let me have a little of that.
 

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Funny you make mention of this. Being i'm in South Florida, my offseason is not "indoors" and my spring warm weather is not foam 3D. I hunt boar every weekend and sometimes during the week too.

Structure wise ? A boar's heart is basically right behind his shoulder when you are in elevation in a stand. I purposely these days smash the shoulder on every boar hog,pierce the heart and lungs. Most times I pass thru,sometimes he totes the arrow dragging behind him and the broadhead will "catch" on something and pull thru. He's dead, but just doesn't know it. Sure my FMJ is dead as well,but my broadhead I resharpen up.

A deer skeletal is far different than a hog. Deer shoulders have a super big sideways V. A hog doesn't. The heart on a deer is easily exposed,a hogs is covered I feel by God, because of their cutter fighting during their rut time. Hence the shield and the heart being tucked away. They do occassionally get poked under the shield up into the bottom of the heart and bleed out fighting, but rare.
My complete arrows, tipped with broadheads cost me around $30 each to build myself, even when I find great deals on them. While I wouldn't back down on shooting a huge wild boar with a big set of tusks, with my bow, the thought of wasting/destroying arrows to kill hogs is intolerable to me. I'll kill hogs with bullets.🤣
 

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My complete arrows, tipped with broadheads cost me around $30 each to build myself, even when I find great deals on them. While I wouldn't back down on shooting a huge wild boar with a big set of tusks, with my bow, the thought of wasting/destroying arrows to kill hogs is intolerable to me. I'll kill hogs with bullets.🤣

Yeah, and being I kill about 50 hogs a year by bow. It gets costly. I'm always looking for cheaper methods. I been experimenting with Amazon arrows in 200 spine 6.2mm. So far so good. $40 a dozen delivered and cut to my length. All I do is build them.
 
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The Impartial Archer
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What are you hunting? Elephants? Your setup is fine for anything that walks on 4 legs already.
Actually he is way underspined so it's really not good for anything. Arrow weight is not the issue for his problem.
 
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