[Devil_Inside]

Hi! I'm a total noob and haven't used bows except a couple of times at fairs and festivals.
My main question is regarding this saying that the arrow, when released, needs to bend around the bow (non-center shot bow) to hit the target.
I've made this graphic and the questions are on the image:

You'd help me greatly to understand how that works!
Thanks!

 

[GCook]

Unfortunately most "noobs" only come post something like this to get set up to use the classifieds.
You obviously know how to search something on the internet and you can find a half dozen videos on it without even trying hard.


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[Devil_Inside]

Unfortunately most "noobs" only come post something like this to get set up to use the classifieds.
You obviously know how to search something on the internet and you can find a half dozen videos on it without even trying hard.


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Sorry, I had to google what classifieds are to understand what you're talking about. I live in Moldova, so I have no use of that section of the forums.
The majority of discussion/vides related to this issue is either about Archer's paradox, or various types of aiming. I couldn't find a definitive answer specifically to this question, since sometimes they're contradicting, so I was hoping to get it here.
If you can link me to at least a couple videos specifically on arrow trajectory, I'd be really grateful!

 

[Viper1]

DI -

Depends entirely on the tune of the arrow to the bow. When the spine of the arrow is correct, the arrow will fly and hit the point it was initially aimed at. If the arrow is too stiff, it will hit to the left (not flex enough), if too weak to the right (flex too much). Assuming a right handed shooter.

Let's be real, if that didn't happen, aiming would be a lot more difficult.

It's a weird concept for a newbie, but becomes second nature after a while.
Seriously, don't over complicate it.

Viper1 out.

 

[3finger]

This link is a very good description. https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~archery/wp-content/uploads/docs/knsu.pdf of arrow mechanics upon release and provides good insight.

 

[Pyme]

Unfortunately most "noobs" only come post something like this to get set up to use the classifieds.
You obviously know how to search something on the internet and you can find a half dozen videos on it without even trying hard.

I didn't see his post as anything like that.

I see most "trying to get to the classifieds" posts as 20 rapid fire generic "best arrow?", "best bow?", "nice", "awesome", stuff. This was actually a well thought-out post, complete with a graphic to support it.

Try ro relax a little bit before jumping the "noobs".

 

[Bowmania]

Well, first of all your diagram is off. The arrow is pointed like the diagram BEFORE full draw. For the right handed shooter it's out board left about the arrow diameter. As you draw the arrow comes in line with target B. And then a correctly spined arrow (not called normal) would hit target B.

Trajectory is the arch of the arrow from bow to impact. Nothing to do with your question.

If you watch slomo videos, the arrow at the second of release bends in (to the right for a right handed shooter - between the string and the bow). The next bend is around the bow window for a 'normally' spined arrow. If the arrow is too weak it hits the window and the arrow kicks left. To stiff and the arrow kicks right because it couldn't bend. Keep in mind this is for a righty, left would be the opposite.

Bowmania

 

[Hikari]

As Bowman said, you diagram is not correct. The archer's paradox is before the bow is drawn. However, in very simple terms, the target on the right will be hit. However, you need to have an arrow with the correct spine for the bow to hit that target. The spine is how flexible the arrow is. That flex changes with the draw weight of the bow and the weight of the point and vanes. It is a complex system. Also, the center shot, which is related to the archer's paradox, can be offset to the string alignment to in alignment to that, showing that the process is not straightforward.

Now, the archer's paradox is for recurve or long bows, but not compound bows with a mechanical release. When you release the string using fingers, you deflect the string, causing the initial flex of the arrow. This is why the flex is a left/right vibration. So you as the archer is the cause. In order to consistently hit the target, requires your release of the string to be consistent. Plucking the string at release can create a really bad shot.

 

[Devil_Inside]

This link is a very good description. https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~archery/wp-content/uploads/docs/knsu.pdf of arrow mechanics upon release and provides good insight.

Thanks! Although it's for a modern center-shot bow, still a lot of info to dig through!

@Bowmania
@Hikari

I'm confused now. I'm not talking about the Archer's Paradox here, and I use a traditional "medieval" bow (so no center shot) with perfectly tuned arrows for this example. I skip the phase BEFORE the draw. I have a situation exactly as in the diagram. A fully drawn Bow points towards target B (median plane of the bow points towards target B). The fully drawn Arrow points towards target A.
What happens on release?
The Arrow starts flexing left and right on it's way towards target A? Or is the flexing amplitude enough for the arrow to bend around the bow and continue towards target B?

 

[c_m_shooter]

Arrow should go to target B. If it goes to target A it is too stiff.

 

[Hikari]

Thanks! Although it's for a modern center-shot bow, still a lot of info to dig through!

@Bowmania
@Hikari

I'm confused now. I'm not talking about the Archer's Paradox here, and I use a traditional "medieval" bow (so no center shot) with perfectly tuned arrows for this example. I skip the phase BEFORE the draw. I have a situation exactly as in the diagram. A fully drawn Bow points towards target B (median plane of the bow points towards target B). The fully drawn Arrow points towards target A.
What happens on release?
The Arrow starts flexing left and right on it's way towards target A? Or is the flexing amplitude enough for the arrow to bend around the bow and continue towards target B?

An arrow has two nodes that are stationary during flight. If the arrows is correct for that bow, then the nodal axis is straight toward the target. The flex in the arrow lets the arrow bend around the bow.

 

[Viper1]

DI -

In the case of an English Longbow, for example. IF the arrow were actually spined for the bow, the my previous post was correct, stiff-left, weak-right. BUT in a lot of cases, ELBs with their lack of being anywhere near center shot, the arrow will act stiff deviate left.

Viper1 out.

 

[Devil_Inside]

An arrow has two nodes that are stationary during flight. If the arrows is correct for that bow, then the nodal axis is straight toward the target. The flex in the arrow lets the arrow bend around the bow.

Yes, I've heard and read about the two nodes, but I'm not exactly sure where those nodes are while the arrow is leaving the bow.
If the Arrow is pointing towards target A as in the diagram, let's call that arrow vector "ALPHA". When you release the string:
1. Do those two nodes stay on that initial "ALPHA" vector, thus ensuring the arrow will travel along that vector?
2. Do they actually form on a different vector, closer to the "BETA" vector (Median plane of the Bow)?

 

[Devil_Inside]

Arrow should go to target B. If it goes to target A it is too stiff.

So the properly spined arrow will hit target B, even if at full draw it points in a different direction?

 

[thirdhandman]

Hope this helps.

 

[Devil_Inside]

Hope this helps.

I've seen this video around 100 times and I still can't really understand what happens. At 2:00 the guy uses a noodle to demonstrate the bending of the arrow and how the arrow will bend around the bow and hit the target that is hidden behind the bow.
Does this mean that at full draw the arrow doesn't point towards the target, but rather the bow is pointed towards the target, and the arrow then bends around the bow and follows the bow's direction?
AKA hitting Target B in my diagram?

 

[Pyme]

Unfortunately most "noobs" only come post something like this to get set up to use the classifieds.
You obviously know how to search something on the internet and you can find a half dozen videos on it without even trying hard.

After reading through up till this point, do you think the guy is still "post building" to use the classifieds? 🤔

 

[GCook]

After reading through up till this point, do you think the guy is still "post building" to use the classifieds? [emoji848]

He may be in the 5% who arent.

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[Viper1]

Pyme -

Seriously, either that or he is really way over complicating things.
Probably need more time at the range and less on the Internet.

It would be a good ploy though. Explain something in plain English and still get nowhere.

Vioper1 out.

 

[Pyme]

I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

It's a hard concept for some people to grasp.