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Discussion Starter #1
i am going to be building big boy arrows for a big boy bow. so i am looking at GT Kinetic XT .200s at 30".

i have pm'd a couple of the heavy setup guys and i get the idea that the GT 'accutough' inserts are not the best option.

to get enough weight up front for a good FOC and still be able to shoot 125gr broadheads, i'll need heavy inserts.

so it seems my options are

75gr brass HIT inserts and possibly a small footer for extra strength and weight.

or

firenock aeroinsert AA in stainless steel. this weighs 55gr and allows for weights to be screwed into the back of them.

has anyone used the firenock aeroinserts? i would think the steel is somewhat unlikely to bend (hopefully), and for the price of them i'd hope so.

i am trying to get the arrow around 600gr and 15% FOC +, and should be going somewhere around 280fps.

are there other options i'm not thinking of? any problems with a lot of shooting with HIT inserts? points directly touching carbon just makes me a tad nervous.
thank you for your input.
 

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The stainless aeroinserts are the best inserts you can get for a .204ID arrow they are extremely strong just make sure you follow the installation instructions and you will not be disappointed.
 

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Can also use blsck eagle stainless outserts. Id go with an HIT type insert if i were you. Outserts dont seem very string no matter what brand
 

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In all seriousness, 3Rivers Archery makes a 100 grain brass HIT insert.
 

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Black eagle stainless steel half outs are a much cheaper alternative to the Aeroinserts but lack the concentric feature of the Aeroinserts. Speaking from experience, the black eagles WILL BEND, but nowhere near as easily as lesser aluminum half outs will.
 

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I have shot the Kinetics in 200 and Black Eagle in .250. Firenock Aeroinserts are the best IMO. I use them exclusively. Very strong and don't look bad either. Black Eagle also makes a similar outsert in steel. I have a dozen and would sell cheap if you want them. They are on their website.
 

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While some are better then other outserts in general suck.

Go with brass HITS, build a short footing and you will be set. Of your two options this is by far the best choice.
 

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While some are better then other outserts in general suck.

Go with brass HITS, build a short footing and you will be set. Of your two options this is by far the best choice.
What's the difference between an outsert and footing? Aeroinsert and BE outsert are short and very strong.
 

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What's the difference between an outsert and footing? Aeroinsert and BE outsert are short and very strong.
Big difference, the outsert no matter how short is still leveraged against the end of the shaft. When force is applied even inadvertently, such as removing shafts from targets, the leverage can cause miss alignment at best and in the case of weaker outserts bending at its worst.

The hit is internal, the footing is placed on the shaft and can not leverage against the shafts end. While it's not fool proof it's less prone to problems compared to outserts
 

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Discussion Starter #12
i got a belt WITH a nice buckle..so yes, i am a big boy! ;)

ok, so, i like the fact that the HITs allow the center of mass of the heads to be further into the shaft, and like trial 153 says, it is not leveraged against the end of the shaft.

am i just being paranoid having a fear of an open ended bare carbon shaft with the HIT insert? this is what bothers me. i like the look of the aeroinserts due to their design to prevent the shaft from buckling outward.

if i can get 100gr HITs, that would solve the problem of also adding weights, and those plus a little footer should meet my weight goals.

are there any other things to do with HITs? broadhead adapters or anything?
thanks for your input. and when i say "i'm building", i really mean jerry at southshore will be putting these together for me. i dont trust myself yet.

these will be going to south africa with me next year, i want something tough in case a blue wildebeest or eland gets in front of me.
 

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Big difference, the outsert no matter how short is still leveraged against the end of the shaft. When force is applied even inadvertently, such as removing shafts from targets, the leverage can cause miss alignment at best and in the case of weaker outserts bending at its worst.

The hit is internal, the footing is placed on the shaft and can not leverage against the shafts end. While it's not fool proof it's less prone to problems compared to outserts
Understand what you are saying, but do not see that in my testing and my setup is pushing 100 KE. The Firenock Aeroinserts have a reverse taper to insure alignment and increase strength on hard hits. Obviously a quality epoxy is paramount. I like the look of HITs and have had good experience, I have had them mushroom and slip out on high impact angled shots. I have not footed them so I'm sure that would help.
 

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Understand what you are saying, but do not see that in my testing and my setup is pushing 100 KE. The Firenock Aeroinserts have a reverse taper to insure alignment and increase strength on hard hits. Obviously a quality epoxy is paramount. I like the look of HITs and have had good experience, I have had them mushroom and slip out on high impact angled shots. I have not footed them so I'm sure that would help.
I m with you. I didn't care for HITs until I built footing behind them. After that I have had no issues, loved the extra weight of the brass.

The best outserts I have used were the short stainless outserts from FN...I don't recall there name. They worked ok for the most part but after heavy use they didn't spin well for me. They cost me like 40 plus shipping at the time and I wasn't going to replace them at that cost.


Right now I have some .400 XT kinetics built with 50 grain brass hits and 1" aluminum footing. They been really good to me.

Nothing is perfect, it's all give and take.
 

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I m with you. I didn't care for HITs until I built footing behind them. After that I have had no issues, loved the extra weight of the brass.

The best outserts I have used were the short stainless outserts from FN...I don't recall there name. They worked ok for the most part but after heavy use they didn't spin well for me. They cost me like 40 plus shipping at the time and I wasn't going to replace them at that cost.


Right now I have some .400 XT kinetics built with 50 grain brass hits and 1" aluminum footing. They been really good to me.

Nothing is perfect, it's all give and take.
The Firenock inserts you reference are the ones I mentioned above. They are called Aeroinserts. I have yet to bend one and I shoot through 1" plywood frequently.
 

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Understand what you are saying, but do not see that in my testing and my setup is pushing 100 KE. The Firenock Aeroinserts have a reverse taper to insure alignment and increase strength on hard hits. Obviously a quality epoxy is paramount. I like the look of HITs and have had good experience, I have had them mushroom and slip out on high impact angled shots. I have not footed them so I'm sure that would help.
The op is correct .. I bent two outserts this year . Just built fmj .. Brass hit footed to prevent this .. Glad you have luck with them though however many people dont
 

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Just a fyi, I've used .340 FMJ's with the x-hit brass inserts out of my Vector Turbo set at 68# (27.5" dl) a lot and they never bent or cracked the shaft or anything.
I'd imagine a footing will make them damn near indestructible unless you're shooting concrete or oak trees.
Point being, don't worry about the inserts, they are great. Also, why would it matter if the point is touching the shaft directly? If the point were to crack the shaft or even get pushed into it and mushroom the tip of the arrow, I don't see how the same thing wouldn't have happened with a standard insert?

What arrows would one use for the footing on a .340 FMJ?
 

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The op is correct .. I bent two outserts this year . Just built fmj .. Brass hit footed to prevent this .. Glad you have luck with them though however many people dont
Do you know what the Aeroinserts are? They are not their outserts, very different. Very few have the KE that I do, so I am pretty tough on arrows and inserts.
 

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Do you know what the Aeroinserts are? They are not their outserts, very different. Very few have the KE that I do, so I am pretty tough on arrows and inserts.
Yup perfectly aware of what they are and I'm actually packing more of a punch than you . Just saying
 

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Yup perfectly aware of what they are and I'm actually packing more of a punch than you . Just saying
Doubtful, but if that makes you feel more of a man. �� when I crank my bow up to 80 for testing at 33.5" DL, very few are.
 
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