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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry of all the stupid questions here but, I'm new to traditional equipment and have lots of questions. When shooting do any of you use any kind of a sight or do you shoot instinctively? And if you can use a sight what or how do you use one on a recurve?
 

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I would have to say that depends on your needs.If you want to shoot in trad only 3D shoots normally you can't use a sight.But there are other archery classes you can compete in that will allow sights.And of cource if its for hunting,use what your most comfortable with.Some recurves are tapped for sights and arrow rest and some are not.Depends on what you have.Most of the metal recurve risers are tapped for both.If your bow is tapped for sights most sights you purchase should mount right to your riser with no problem.I shoot a Gamemaster 2.But I'm a gap shooter so I don't normally use a sight.I use the point of the arrow as a reference.However if I'm wanting to buckle down and practice my form I might add a sight temporarily.That way I can consintrate on my form and not my aiming system.Hope this helps.tradrick
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I would have to say that depends on your needs.If you want to shoot in trad only 3D shoots normally you can't use a sight.But there are other archery classes you can compete in that will allow sights.And of cource if its for hunting,use what your most comfortable with.Some recurves are tapped for sights and arrow rest and some are not.Depends on what you have.Most of the metal recurve risers are tapped for both.If your bow is tapped for sights most sights you purchase should mount right to your riser with no problem.I shoot a Gamemaster 2.But I'm a gap shooter so I don't normally use a sight.I use the point of the arrow as a reference.However if I'm wanting to buckle down and practice my form I might add a sight temporarily.That way I can consintrate on my form and not my aiming system.Hope this helps.tradrick
How do you like your game master bow? Thats the bow I've been looking at also.
 

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I am also new, but I have found I can be quite successful w/o sights. As I am developing my skills I have becoming much proficient at just finding the spot. Its not like shooting compound that I compare to using a rifle.

I would say that I agree with tradrick, its about how you are going to use it and how much time you are going to devote to it. If you spend a lot of time practicing and developing your skills that I would say that you can become an accomplished barebow instinctive shooter. This is what I want to do, I simply wish to be "one with the bow" and learn to shoot it bare.
 

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OK---not trying to argue semantics here, but when you use the term shooting "instinctively", that doesn't simply refer to shooting without the use of a sight. When someone is shooting "instinctively", what that is referring to is shooting without using a particular aiming method. There are lots of people that shoot without using a sight, but they do use a particular aiming method (gap, point of aim, etc.).

When someone is shooting without a sight attached to the bow but does use a method of aiming, that is called "barebow shooting", not "instinctive."
 

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Buckhunter2054,I like the Gamemaster alot.The grip for me is just right.The Hoyt riser is one of the best IMO.The factory limbs are good but could be better is what alot of top shooters are saying.For me,shooting 3D and hunting they'll do for now.That's also one of the good things about the bow.You can upgrade to higher quality limbs like some of the carbon models and higher or lower pondage limbs.You can also select shorts,medium or longs on your limbs and alter the overall length of your bow.Some say the factory Gamemaster is loud right out of the box.And this is true.But a couple of modification and its as quiet as anything out there.Go to kineticbows.com.This is David Soza's site.He sells a rubber limb pad that fits between the riser and limb connection that quieten it down a good bit.This is were alot of your noice is comeing from.He also sells a quality string that has silicone string sleeves mounted just under the string loops that are on each end.This reduces the noise caused from the string slapping the limbs after release.Then put on a set of your favorite string silencers and she's nice and quiet.The bow is a real work horse,can take plenty of abuse in the woods and still perform.I almost sold mine.But got to playing with it more and decided its a keeper.tradrick
 

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I shoot instinctively too but I also know people who gap shoot and do very well,,, at alot of the traditional shoots theres a night shoot called a **** shoot and the gap shooters have a tough time because they can't see the arrow point..

plus another thing is if you do use your arrow point to gap shoot also practice with the broadhead you will use too because come hunting season people get messed up having a big broadhead out there instead of a nice round field point..
 

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Bh2054

What you are talking about is no more then repetitive learning. And a sight will get you there sooner. You know the arrow point is right there in front of your nose. Your brain registers it every time you shoot along with the body position. (Short form). Believe it or not, everyone uses point of aim. They just go about it differently.
 

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bh -

A lot of you guys may not know "Van", but he's been shooting and traching/coaching this stuff for a while and knows his stuff, if he says something, listen. I do.

I'll just add that a sight will get your form in shape faster than anything else - because it doesn't forgive any form errors. Once your form is down, then you'll be surprised how quickly you can learn to aim "instinctively".

Viper1 out.
 

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OK---not trying to argue semantics here, but when you use the term shooting "instinctively", that doesn't simply refer to shooting without the use of a sight.
Actually that is exactly what it meant until the "retrotrad" movement came into existance a few years ago. Those trying to return to a time that never was have redefined things.

Steve
 

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I agree with van and viper.They both know there stuff.They are 2 of several that I have learned alot from on these forums in the past year or two.tradrick
 

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Just Shoot...

I'm not trying to be a [email protected]$$ but I've tried gap, point of aim, one eye closed, both eyes open and probably both eyes closed on more than one occasion but the best advice that was ever given to me was "just shoot."

I was standing 20 yards from my little coffee-lid target just pounding out arrows until a very skilled and experienced archer asked me what I thought I was doing? He asked few more questions, which I answered, and then he changed everything about the way I shoot.

He told me... "keep both eyes open, focus only on what you want to hit and believe it or not, eventually your arrow will go there... just shoot."

I don't know how it happened but after a couple of days... Bingo. Now, I only see what I'm aiming at, I don't see the point of the arrow, I don't try to adjust using a gap, I just shoot and distance within 35 yard doesn't seem to matter too much. If I'm doing something subconsciously that I should have been doing right from the start or it's just dumb luck... I couldn't tell you but my shooting has improved.

By the way, Jack, thanks for the advice.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I guess the reason I asked about using a sight is because that's all I've ever used with a compound bow and so being that I'm a green horn I was just wondering if using a one pin would work for a aiming point. Instinctive shooting is something I'm not very good at and I know that I would have to practice a lot but, I was just thinking that maybe a one pin sight would help a lot. Getting lots of great info here guys thanks a bunch.
 

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Guys -

This is something I posted over a year ago on another site. The original question was "Do you believe you can shoot better with or without a sight?".

After a few interesting answers, I threw in my .02:

Under almost all shooting conditions it's impossible NOT to shoot more accurately with a sight (generic definition or sight) than without one.

Let's take it step by step.

Fixed distance, single target - the sight takes the guess work out of the shot. It makes the shot a pure form exercise. If your form or technique is consistant, then by definition your arrow must hit at or very close to the same spot. Once that happens, it's pretty simple to move the sight to center the group (yeah, even a caveman could do it).

If you don't anchor consistantly, maintain a consistant draw length, keep the bow arm steady during the power stroke, or do anything to get in the way of the letting the bow/arrow do what they want to do, then the sight becomes useless. Quick reality check: if you make any of the above mistakes, you'll miss if you have a sight on the bow or not, with out a sight, you just won't know why. IE was it bad aim or bad bow arm? Contrary to what's been proposed, you don't have to hold at anchor forever with a sight, you have to hold long enough to line everything up. Truth is, you have to do that if you're shooting "instinctively" too, of course, that's only true if you plan on hitting anything with any regularity.

Multiple distances, single target (assuming consistant form). The sight shooter wins again. While it's common that most sight shooters adjust their sights for varying distances, the DAS SRF showed that may not always be necessary. Messing around with my FITA bows, shooting from 10 to 30 yds, I don't have to more my sight. The hold off is a known and I can play that game and do fairly well. Again, contrary to the thought that using a sight makes you have to judge distance while shooting instinctively doesn't - think again! The sight may add a little weight to the riser, but doesn't change the arrow's trajectory one bit. Set your sights for a 30 yd target and it's really 40 yds away, your gonna miss. That samething happens if you guesstimate is off by 10 yds shooting instinctively. (Sorry, young Skywalker, the Force may not be with you...)

Quick shots or multiple targets in rapid succession - (again, assuming consistant form). At a fixed distance, again the sight is going to win. Multiple distances in rapid succession, might be a grey area, bit a sight such as the SRF might pull it off.

Negatives with a sight: The bow has to held vertically or at a consistant angle of cant, and yeah, a relatively small cant). If you hold the bow horizontally, then yeah, a sight may not be for you. Anchor, draw length, release (follow-through) have to be clean and consistant.

Why do some people say they can shoot better without a sight than with one?

(Get the flamethrowers ready boys.)

Some folks expect putting a sight on a bow will may them instant marksmen. After they give one a quick try and see that they actually don't shoot any better, rather than blaming poor or down right non-existant form, they blame the "sight" getting in the way. A really poor shooter will not notice any difference with or with out a sight, and may actually shoot worse because the sight forces then to stop at anchor, draw consistantly and actually (dare I say) AIM? Basically it make them do things they haven't done before.

The other possible reason is that some folks just have their minds set against using one. Kinda like someone handing the best shooting rig in the world, if you really hate the color, you ain't gonna want to shoot it.

Am I say everyone should switch to using a sight? Certainly not, what I am SUGGESTING is that just about everyone should LEARN to use one. Putting a temporary sight (toothpick) on a bow will NOT make you dependant on it, nor will it rob you of your traditional manhood. What it will do is force to to see what you're real strong and weak points are and give you the opertunately AND tools to correct them.

I've always been an instinctive shooter, but I can not begin to tell you how much better I got at instinctive shooting since I started using FITA bows with sights. Now I can do both, no loss and lots of gains. The people I teach and/or coach get a sight, usually part of a vane taped to their riser (The Viper5000) sooner or later. It's not a permanent fixture, but it's one hell of a kick in the pants - in a good way. They now have options and an open mind.

Paper targets or animals - gotta tell ya the samething. If nothing else, having a solid reference point may just calm you down enough to make a better shot at game. Can't say for sure, never used one when I used to hunt. But that was becasue I did my homework before hand ;). If I had to do it over, I'd start working with a sight earlier.

Hey guys, I actually made it through the overly long post without using the term "over-bowed" (but we all know it was implied, right? LOL)


Viper1 out
 

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Excellant post Viper.Agree with you 100%.tradrick
 

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I guess I'm in Viper's camp on this. A sight is a great training aid in form and consistancy, which go hand in hand. Bottom line, when it comes to shooting at a living breathing thing, if my shooting and confidence are not up to it without a sight, a sight I will use.
 

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Right on Viper.

The thing that has always amazed me is nobody tells a gun hunter not to aim. They even put on those bead things on shot guns. :lol:
 

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I shoot split-vision. My bows can't hold a sight (and I would be afraid of knocking it loose) and I have trouble concentrating tightly enough for purely insticntive. It also helps boost my confidence a little, which always helps. Guess it's a cross?
 

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In the past, I've used a sight on a recurve for hunting and had good success with it. These days, I use a gap method for shooting mainly because I like shooting 3D, but I do still have an old Cobra pin sight in my tackle box that I break out on occassion for form checks.

Viper....Good post.
 
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