i'm not a ecurve shooter, but as I understand shooting that kind of distance instinctively requires that you do a process called, "string walking"...where you nock an arrow in it's regular position but move your draw hand down the string by counting winds of center serving, for the shorter shots. it requires that you set your bow up so that your normal draw hand position is for your maximimum distance and all other distances are established by the number of serving wraps you draw from, below that normal max draw position.
if you go to the recurve forum, i'm sure someone there, will be able to explain it better.

 

Thanks Ron, I am familiar with string walking, but it is illegal in a competition..Thanks anyway.

 

Years ago, I shot instinctive but could never shoot over 40 yards this way. Another archer taught me hot to shoot "point on". You find the distance where at full draw and with the tip of your arrow in the spot, you hit the spot. With most people this will be about 60 yards. Then with practice, you place the tip of your arrow at different places on the target , depending on the distance, to hit the spot.

I only shot this way for a couple of years before I put sights on my recurve and started shooting FITA division. However the majority of barebow shooters today still use the "point on" method and would be happy to teach you.

 

tradlad,

You will loose sight of the target at distances beyond your Point on distance. The trick is to "estimate" the hold over point ( pick something to draw on that's above the target) then trust the shot. It just takes practice and experience.

String waling is largely ineffective for anything past your point on distance, it is best employed for distances less than POD.

Arne

 

Thanks, but I don't use any aiming method, I get what your saying about shooting longer distances but how I shoot is i look at the target only, that is ignoring both arrow and bow.
My aim is only as good as my vision, meaning I have to lock my eye on the target to hit it.

 

The only way you can get a longer distance without blocking the target is by lowering your anchor point. Look at the FITA target archers. They all anchor underneath their chin. This is so they can still put their sight on the target - it increases the distance between your eye and the nock of the arrow. No other way to get there.

 

If you aren't using any aiming method, why do you need to look at the target. Just point at the target and rely on "the force" to guide your arrow.

If you have to see the target, then you are using some version of a gap aiming system. In which case you need to find an aiming point over the target on which to use as an aimming reference.

JMHO,
Allen

 

I agree, instinctive shooting is total BS! To consistently hit a point on a target the arrow must be aimed at that point...period. I believe that the " instinctive " shooter is actually gap shooting.

If you aren't using any aiming method, why do you need to look at the target. Just point at the target and rely on "the force" to guide your arrow.

If you have to see the target, then you are using some version of a gap aiming system. In which case you need to find an aiming point over the target on which to use as an aiming reference.

JMHO,
Allen

 

I don't think you are going to get an answer you like. I don't believe anyone shoots 80 yards instinctively.

 

way back when I shot instinctive in the early 80's I developed a method of a combination of hold over an what I called "arrow walking".
I used marks on my arrows every 2" from the tip with a sharpie and used those marks for 50-60-70-80 but I never shot anything over 80.
I would line that mark up at whatever distance over the top of the target and let r fly. Over time I was pretty accurate but those 80 yarders were "prayer shots"
I could count the second from release to impact.

I could really see the arch of the arrow and would try to "body english wish" that arrow into the bales. LOL
I shot a 45 and 50 lb PSE NOVA, with nylon cams, 40% let off, tabbed fingers, no sight and a kwikee quiver.

 

With instinctive - the farther you shoot, the farther you are off. The best you can do is use the shelf as a reference (or point as mentioned above) - We have a target at a club that is 100 yards (or so - some meter thingy) - I use the shelf as a reference and rarely hit it but I miss alot

 

one guy i shot with all summer is trad/barebow

what he does is have the same aiming point.

but different weight arrows for each distance.

red fletched for 20
green for 30
blue for 40 etc.

furthest ive seen him go is about 70 yards tho.

I expect next summer he will have the arrows he needs to do the same with 80 yards maybe ?

 

I shoot compound barebow and I'm pretty much instinctive in my shooting (enough so that it messes up my longer range system). My method is something like Kentucky windage with a rifle. What I do is find out how much my arrow drops from where I'm looking at longer distances, then I adjust my aim and aim at something that's that much above where I'm wanting to hit. For example, on a large deer 3D target I aim/look right about an inch under the top of the back of the target for 40 yards (I'm dead on from 15 to 32-33 yards) to hit the 11 ring. For 50 yards it's about 8" over the back that I have to look to get the height right.

For you to be shooting purely instinctive out to 60 yards, I'm sure your form is subconsciously adjusting for you and this can really mess you up since it will try to keep doing it as you shoot more. I've run into the same thing if I shoot too much at 50 and have to keep changing up the range and go back to shooting at 20.

 

Thanks everyone, I don't normally shoot 80 yards, 60Y is normal in a competition, but some key notes to the responses is that there are legal issues on how to shoot, one is the anchor has to be consistent, meaning I cant shoot under the chin, arrow lengths most be the same, and having markings on the arrow or bow is a disqualification right off.
I get what some of you said about looking at a higher point and I have done this on occasion,but my sight is blocked completely on anything over 60Ys. that includes above the target.
I really appreciate you all taking the time to give me your advice, Thanks

 

It sounds like you're just moving your bow arm to take up the range then. That can get you into all kinds of problems when you're not shooting shots on flat ground (ie. uphill and downhill) because your draw length is actually changing when you're doing this. You should try to rotate more at the waist instead of just with your arm. If you look at some of the flight shooters in England, they'll actually drop to their back knee to get enough body angle to make their shots.

 

My oldest half-brother was a professional archer (for the lack of a better term) and shot with a recurve without sights until old age forced him to a compound (he even taught Johnny Unitas to shoot a bow). He said whenever he changed bows or arrows or whatever, he would find out what his point of aim was. Meaning he would find what the exact distance was that allowed him to put the tip of his broadhead on the bullseye - and then hit the bullseye. He said once he found out what that distance was, he would know what his trajectory was and could accommodate for different distances. Always made sense to me.

 

80 yards....I don't think I could even see the target at that distance, unless the target was the Goodyear Blimp. Props to you traditional guys that shoot well at that range!!!

 

The greatest problem I found I struggle with is maintaining my focus on the specific spot I want to hit. The candle trick forces you to concentrate, when the lights are on I find myself diverting my attention right at the last second and that leads to errant shots. The bows always out-shoot me, I'm the weakest link by far

 

Instinctive shooting just takes natural talent. Some people will have enough of it to pull it off and some people simply don't.

 

Point of aim or gap shooting in NFAA tournaments is legal as long as you do not change your hand position. Everyone I have ever met that shoots any distance over 40 yards with a barebow uses the gap system. Over the past 58 years, I have met many famous longbow and recurve shooters like Damon Howatt, Fred Bear, Glen St. Charles , and many more and most of these would use instictive method while hunting but never over 35 0r 40 yards, During tournaments or when they wanted to shoot any distance at a target, they would also use the gap method.

The idea of archery is to hit the target. If you will only use pure instictive shooting at long distances, then you will always be the archer behind the target looking for his arrows while the rest of us waits for you. When a professional baseball player throws a long ball, the person catching has to move to catch it. You may need to buy a target that moves to meet your arrow.

 

58 years is a long time and with that company, I will have to take your advice and practice my gaps. Thanks.

 

You will see the target if you cant your bow. The target will be below your bow and this method may mess up your instinctive aiming. But you will see the target

 

Anyone that says they shoots without aiming is lieing. Unless they can always shoot with their eyes closed. If your not aiming in some way. Then you don't need to see what your trying to hit.

 

Everyone aims, I have shot trad for 10 years, and I like many others look at the target, if I can't lock my eye I have a good chance of missing, if I lock my eye on a small part of the target an follow through correctly I will hit it. Instinctive simply means the shooter does not need to know the distance, but very much needs to see the target.

 

Instinctive shooting comes after long hours of practice. I know a skeet shooter who can hit crossing targets at 20 yards from the hip. No aiming at all, just eye-hand coordination. Someone I knew in high school could shoot bugs out of the air with a BB pistol. And the Army during the Vietnam War was training some soldiers to shoot instinctively with the aid of Daisy BB guns.

Watch this video. Quality is poor but the point comes across nicely.

Archer Howard Hill taught John Schultz. And Schultz, in turn, taught his son. At 2:06 the young guy shoots at some targets tossed in the air. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jJh15ErDII

 

Thanks for the link, very enjoyable, I will watch the rest of his videos for more tips.