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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Guys,

So my press finally came in, installed it last night and started putting it to work this morning. I'm shooting an RX7 Ultra at 71lbs, 29.5" draw length. Before I had access to a press I was shooting BH about 6 inches to the left of FP at 30yrds. When I would shoot through paper at around 9-10ft I was getting a high right tail tear. My centershot is 13/16ths, I would like to leave it that way if possible. I raised the arrow rest and I am pretty close to center now when shooting fletched through paper, tail is still a tad high as you can see from the picture. BUT when I shoot a bareshaft I am consistently hitting tail low.

My issue is my bareshafts are hitting tail low when my fletched are hitting tail high. The same thing occurs when I shim the cams. I get a bullet hole when shimmed hard right on both top and bottom BUT with fletched I am tail right...... Do I tune for bareshaft and forget the fletched?

New tuner at a loss on what to do.....


All my shots are consistent like this, I changed the paper so I could give you guys a clear picture instead of 30 holes.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'd figure out why this is happening. What is the most common cause is that you vanes are hitting something and kicking the arrow high. Ironically, lowering your rest can help this as it gives you more clearance.

Here's what I would do: spray your vanes/back of arrow with the coating foot powder or coat with ground chalk or lipstick. Shoot and look at the bow and vanes to see if there is contact. Whether there is or not, lower the rest to get the bareshaft shooting nock level up/down. Check for vane contact again.

You haven't mentioned your rest. Vane contact with a dropaway rest is often due to rest timing or another issue. What type of rest do you have?

If you get your bareshafts shooting good through paper, then you can determine why your fletched arrows aren't doing the same. I think that order of operation is easiest as far as figuring things out.
I'm using a QAD drop away rest.

I will go test now, thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'd figure out why this is happening. What is the most common cause is that you vanes are hitting something and kicking the arrow high. Ironically, lowering your rest can help this as it gives you more clearance.

Here's what I would do: spray your vanes/back of arrow with the coating foot powder or coat with ground chalk or lipstick. Shoot and look at the bow and vanes to see if there is contact. Whether there is or not, lower the rest to get the bareshaft shooting nock level up/down. Check for vane contact again.

You haven't mentioned your rest. Vane contact with a dropaway rest is often due to rest timing or another issue. What type of rest do you have?

If you get your bareshafts shooting good through paper, then you can determine why your fletched arrows aren't doing the same. I think that order of operation is easiest as far as figuring things out.
Alright, sprayed some calamine lotion on my vanes, no rest contact from what I can see.

Adjusted the rest down 4 clicks, see picture below for results. I'll probably adjust it one or two more click to get it perfect.
Unfortunately my draw board hasn't arrived yet so I cannot check cam timing or rest timing. I plan on going to the local bow shop later today to have that verified.

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You absolutely can check cam timing without a draw board. I use my bow scale with a backup string in case the d loop fails. Just pull it down and watch when the draw stops hit. All you really need is something to hold the bow back safely as you observe the draw stops. Twist cables a half twist at a time until they hit together, or better yet when your bare shaft hits the same as your fletched at 20 yards. You really don't need the paper either unless that's your preference. Twisting the cables has more effect on the vertical than raising/lowering the rest.
Would cam timing explain what I am seeing now?

I called my local bow shop just now to explain what is happening ... They told me I should be shooting through paper at 10ft, that I need to be about 2 feet away to see exactly what the arrow is doing as it leaves the bow. That logic doesn't make full sense to me ... what do you all think?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
While I was waiting on replies from ya'll I tried what the bow shop said. The 4 shots closest to the top of the paper were at 2 feet, the 4 shots towards the middle of the paper were at 10ft.

I'm done with paper, going to go outside and see what bareshafts and fletched at doing when I shoot at the target. Will start with 10yrds then move on from there.

Arrows are 28.5" long, spined at 300.

Gna check cam and rest timing before I go hitting the target.

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Rest timing is good, cam timing is slightly off. Top cam is hitting the string stop, bottom cam is 3/16ths away from hitting the string. From what I read I don't need to worry about that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
if you're not shooting bareshaft bullet holes through paper, then I don't see any reason to move back to 20 or 30 yards and shoot bareshafts because they are going to plane like mad

shooting bareshafts at 20 or 30 yards is hypersensitive to tune and form....i'd get your paper tune done first

edit: It isn't uncommon to have perfect bullet holes at 15 to 5 feet (like you couldn't make them look better if you pushed the arrow through by hand carefully)....and they'll still plane 6 inches or a foot to one side at 25 yards....also, I wouldn't shoot bareshafts past 25 yards unless you are a machine
My bareshafts are smacking my field points at 20 yrds. I should be able to leave paper alone at this point right?

I think I'm going start shooting broadheads to get my 30 dialed in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Gave up on paper completely, stopped with the bareshafts for anything over 20yrds. Broadheads are hitting with FPs out to 50 yrds, I'm happy now.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
I just fought with this over the last couple of days.
I’m in Florida and locked down from the hurricane. Went out last week amd beat my bow up pretty good going through the woods so decided to check things through paper. Had the same tear and the same situation. Here’s what I did….skip the paper tune.

As soon as the weather cleared I went out and started from scratch.
1) put the bow in the press and put everything back in to spec
2) sighted in at 20 yards using field tips
3) bare shaft tuned until I had a laser at 20
4) slight tweaks at broadhead tuning and nock tuning
5) repeated with same tweaks out to 30 and 40 with field tips and broadheads.

Now shooting bare shafts, filed tips, mechanicals and fixed blades all on out to 40. I’m an eastern white tail hunter so all my shots are 30 and in.
Point being, I’m now 10 times more confident in everything I was this morning and not gonna lose sleep over a weird paper tear. Just my 2 cents.
Hah, this is almost exactly what I settled on.....

Gave up on trying to get solid bareshafts at 30. Went to 20 and tuned to get the bareshafts to hit my field points, from 30 - 50yrds I used broadheads and field points to finish the process.

:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Paper isn’t a waste of time. If you aren’t consistent through paper, you’re not consistent down range. Bare shaft bullet hole means one arrow is tuned with the bow close range. Fletching is icing on the cake. At close range. After that I work on bare shaft/fletched out as far as I’m consistent. Then micro adjust for fixed broadheads. It’s a combo of shooter/bow/arrow tune. Do what you will, or capable of. It’s the shooter that screws things up the most.
Oh I still plan on using paper, I just got stuck up on it for a bit too long.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
That much difference from fletched arrow to bare shaft is fletching contact. More than likly are rest timing issue if it is a drop away rest.
Shoot me a PM would be happy to walk through your issues and get them resolved.
All is good gents! I moved away from paper and focused on shooting bareshafts with fieldpoints out to 20 yrds. Cleaned up all my issues there then broadhead tuned to 50yrds.

Thank you for trying to help! Now I just need to work on my target panic when placing my pin on a deer :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
I am a bare shaft paper tuner, I start at 3 or so feet and I work my way back to 20 yards getting better and better bullet holes. Once I get bullet holes with my bare shafts at 20 yards my arrow flight is perfect!!!!

Now for the cool part, my fletching only has one job to do now!! My fletching only has to stabilize perfection as the arrow goes on its way to the target, it doesn't have to correct or hide poor arrow flight at all because it doesn't exist. What this offers me is my bareshafts and fletched and broadheads always hit the same point of impact without any additional tuning needed.

How do I know that my bow doesn't need anymore tuning once I can shoot bullet holes out to 20 yards with bare shafts? Because for a couple years once I started doing this kind of tuning I would check my tune with fletched and broadheads etc and not one time did I need to fix anything.

The difference is guys who ignore arrow flight and they only do the point of impact thing are in a constant state of poor arrow flight where the fletching has to correct some form of kick or wobble and as they move things sooner or later they get kind of lucky and start seeing good point of impact between bare shafts or fletched and broadheads even though their arrow flight may still have issues.
When you paper tune at 20yrds with your BS I'm assuming your target is raised? I'm not even sure I could paper tune at 20yrds. I use a bag target on the ground.

I didn't 100% give up on paper, I moved closer to about 3ft and when I was shooting bullet holes at 3ft I move to shooting the target.
 
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