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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys,

Just joined today. Been lurking for last few days just reading some posts and taking on board some great form advice. Hailing from South East London, UK :) (Saw its predominantly Americans here, be nice haha).

I used to shoot recurves quite a lot when i was younger (14-15) and i remembered being quite good at it. Im now 23 and i mentioned to my sister that i wanted to get back into it, so she bought me an archery taster session for christmas, shortly after i looked into getting my own recurve >_<. I fell madly in love with archery again and now its all i want to do! I have a Petron S1. 66" at 32 pounds. Not an amazing bow but suits me quite nicely. I used to love the idea of getting a compound but recurves are my first love.

After checking out some videos of some amazing skill i became quite obsessed with whisker biscuits and their whole concept. Really is an ingenuous idea. I googled around and the general consensus with WB's and recurves was NO. A lot of people said you cant physically do it, and a lot said they have terrible accuracy on recurves. Well, i bought a cheap whisker biscuit (like £8). First problem was i couldnt have it on the far side of the riser, the mount wouldnt reach to the other end, so i had to affix it on the back of the riser closest to me. Secondly the fletchings were catching on the 3 points the brushers were at, so i unscrewed the biscuit from the mounting rod and turned it 90 degree's, you can see below, its supposed to load from the top, now loads from the side, but it now means the fletchings sit flush with the side of the riser, and theyre lined up perfectly to go through between the whiskers, not through them. And i actually think bringing the biscuit back and closer to the string it improves accuracy, Moving the bow after release can severely affect accuracy, but im guessing the closer the rest is to the string the less time you have to move the bow to disrupt flight before the arrow is clear.





Also, im well aware bow hunting in the UK is entirely illegal (what isnt in the UK :p). But how about Bow Fishing? I cant get a definitive answer as to its legal status over here. Besides, fish are probably all id be able to bring myself to kill to be honest >_<

Cant have a quiver like this if im not shooting something!

 

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Congrats on the new bow. I would GUESS (educated guess) that you will never get good groups with the rig set up like that. Try it for a week, unless you start losing your vanes. Then try a elevated wire rest (and plunger if the riser has the bush). I bet you will notice a vast improvement.

You might even be better off shooting off the shelf with a few small "Velcro mods"?

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-sebastian-flute-ultimate-recurve-arrow-rest.html

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shibuya-dx-plunger.html

or just,

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/hoyt-hunter-rest.html
 

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Welcome to the forum and congrats on the bow.

I was not aware that bow hunting was illegal in the UK. That's a bummer.
 

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Oh yea...if I had to shoot the bow that way I would try rotating the nock 180* on the string, so the white vane is inboard not outboard?

Even if you use a release that rest looks to be to far inboard?
 

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forau -

Thee reason you are getting away with the whisker biscuit is because the fletch is compensating for the "damage" the rest is doing.
What most people, especially trad types, don't usually get is how little fletch is required to keep an arrow flying relatively straight.

In fact, some clubs use biscuits on rentals bow for brand new shooters, because at that level it does work and masks a lot of typical shooter errors..
You might even be able to fake a tune with it.
Since you've been googling it, you should understand why I said fake.

If you plan on using a release device, the tables are turned and the biscuit is more appropriate.

What you want to do is certainly your business and if that's working for you, go for it.

Viper1 out.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Wseward, Hmm, I do have a metal cartel flipper in its box ive been thinking of attaching. I'll see how I get on as is and if im not getting good or consistent shots I'll get the flipper on there. And do you mean the white vane pointing towards the riser? Seems like that vain is going to strike the riser and cause accuracy to go out? That was what was happening with the standard plastic rest, which made me go for a WB.

Cladinator, yep, completly illegal. Not sure I have it in me to kill anything I dont plan on eating anyway though. So no major loss for me. Bow fishing would be pretty awesome though.

I appreciate the advice and links. On a 12 hr shift in the office and not a whole lot going on so im getting plenty of reading done. Nice one guys.
 

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"And do you mean the white vane pointing towards the riser?"

Yea...like the arrow in the Beiter vid liked to above. However, now that I look at it again, I see that I am probably wrong with that idea and you are probably doing what is best for that rig as it is now. Hey...did not mean to bombard you with opinion and info., just I was going to try the same thing with a $40 capture rest on a Martian Jaguar I used to have. Only I planned on cutting one of the brush arms off of the rest.

Another possible thing to consider, if you do not find that rest accurate is to try cutting the upper brush arm off right at the top of the horizontal cross beam? Then it might function more like a Booddle Timberdoodle rest or a Timberdoodle II rest which is what I ended up using on the Jag. They are expensive...yet for the Jag was a good option. Now I really like shooting off the shelf or a good wire rest and plunger.
 

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Cant have a quiver like this if im not shooting something!
If I can say it in a “nice” way…can’t have a quiver like that around me either…without my suggesting that the fletching goes towards the lower limb.

In the past I’ve found bowhunting regulations in with the fishing regs…can’t say that’s a universal thing though.

I certainly share your sentiments when it comes to stick bows. Welcome...and Enjoy, Rick.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Congrats on the new bow. I would GUESS (educated guess) that you will never get good groups with the rig set up like that. Try it for a week, unless you start losing your vanes. Then try a elevated wire rest (and plunger if the riser has the bush). I bet you will notice a vast improvement.

You might even be better off shooting off the shelf with a few small "Velcro mods"?

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/w-w-sebastian-flute-ultimate-recurve-arrow-rest.html

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/shibuya-dx-plunger.html

or just,

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/hoyt-hunter-rest.html
Yesterday I removed the WB and attached the metal cartel flipper I bought a little while ago. Vast improvement as you predicted!

How come WB's are so accurate on compounds but not recurves? Surely the arrow on both of them fish tails the same amount??

I took a video of my grouping with the flipper, far better. I'll upload shortly :).

The carbon arrows I bought a while ago fly so straight its unreal, but theyre pretty poor quality, anyone recomend some decent quality carbons that I'd be allowed to use at a club?

Nice one for the warm welcome btw guys.
 

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When shooting with fingers, the arrow bends against the riser, then springs away from it and swims like a fish for a ways before straightening out. As it flexes and springs away, it clears the riser. This is because a finger release deflects the arrow upon release. Thus, a proper arrow setup for a finger shooter is for the tip of the arrow to be aligned slightly off-center. This is called the "archer's paradox". Google it and check it out. It also means that getting the arrow spine right (a measure of how flexible it is) is much more important for finger shooting, as that determines how much the arrow springs away and the speed of the wiggle - the timing, so to speak, required for the arrow to clear the riser.

Compound bows shot with a mechanical release do not experience the archer's paradox (it's very slight and vertical instead of horizontal). Thus, they are set up "center shot", with the entire length of the arrow perfectly centered with the string. Hence using a whisker biscuit or lizard tongue or drop-away rest.

When shooting off-the-shelf, there is relatively little one can do to get the arrow tuned properly without modifying the arrow itself. You can twist/untwist the string (adjusting draw weight and brace height) and maybe make the rest thicker or thinner. Using a plunger lets you adjust the amount of centershot directly and the spring inside adjusts the pressure to absorb small variations in your release. Essentially, you can tune the bow to the arrow, so the arrows don't have to be perfect.

A nice compromise is the NAP Centerest Flipper, if your riser is far enough past center to use one. It provides a little bit of cushion and lets you directly adjust the offset.

Thus, tuning a bow is the interplay between the arrow (spine, length, and tip weight) and the bow (draw weight, brace height, nock position, rest position, and arrow offset).

Unless you have some experienced help or a coach/teacher guiding you, some might advise shooting off the shelf to start with. Get your form and shot cycle solidified and burned into muscle memory, and your body adjusted to shooting. Some love shooting off the shelf for its simplicity, especially longbow shooters, and keep it that way.

Good luck to you!
 

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What j.conner says above is very true. Compounds with let off also apply power to the arrow more gradually. The gradual application of power, true center shot and the use of a release make for a very different arrow tune. I want to try a release with my recurve some time...just to experiment.

Glad to hear you are moving forward.

Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
J.conner, nice one for clearing that up :)

As promised, heres the vid i took of the first 3 shots with the flipper instead of the whisker biscuit :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQNqcW27TxQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

(I have small targets set at the bottom of the big foam target as if I aimed at the middle of the foam I'd be shooting directly towards a neighbouring fence :p, theyre low on purpose!)
 

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Hi forau -

I'm totally new myself, but also live here in London (South West). I have a good sized back garden, as well as a little bit of a green space behind my house next to some tennis courts, and was wondering what the regulations are (as far as you know) about setting up an area to shoot? Are they based on council, or city wide?

I'm in the process of taking courses to join a club in Southwark, but the fees and such will get pretty pricey for the amount I'd like to practice!

Also, I'd be interested to know about any UK bow shops you may have found (as you know, there's not many here in the city)

Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hi forau -

I'm totally new myself, but also live here in London (South West). I have a good sized back garden, as well as a little bit of a green space behind my house next to some tennis courts, and was wondering what the regulations are (as far as you know) about setting up an area to shoot? Are they based on council, or city wide?

I'm in the process of taking courses to join a club in Southwark, but the fees and such will get pretty pricey for the amount I'd like to practice!

Also, I'd be interested to know about any UK bow shops you may have found (as you know, there's not many here in the city)

Cheers!
From what I understand as long as the projectile does not leave your property, you have a warning sign entrance a member of public could get into the field (eg driveway gate to garden) and you take "all adequate safety precautions". My setup seems to be working fine. I have a proper waist height target stand but choose to rest the target at the bottom instead of standing it on the rests, this makes sure Im always aiming down and I leave a good few meters of grass behind. Also helps to say something to the neighbours, or at least dont shoot when theyre in the garden (i went for this option to avoid talking to them).
 
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