[rattus58]

I was over at brand B the other day and saw a thread about a couple of guys who bowhunt birds with a bow, ducks mostly and the weapon of choice for this somewhat unorthodox method of take, is arrow of choice with a rubber blunt for the coup de gras.

Secondly, if I read this correctly, the ducks were mostly taken on ice, on the ground. So... this brings up the question of ethics. Is shooting a duck with a blunt ethical, especially if the rules allow it? What about shooting ducks on the ground? I have dozens of other examples, one of which was posed to me recently as well... which went something like "well you can shoot a squirrel with a BMG, but it's not ethical!" To which I replied, why isn't it?

Any comments on this perchance.... :grin:

Aloha... Tom :beer:

Sorry Viper... couldn't hep myself..... :embara:

 

[Jack NZ]

Where I live,shooting ducks or any other game bird on the ground is illegal and therefore also unethical.
On a personal note,I think shooting any animal bigger than a rabbit with blunts is not a good idea.
But I won't say ethical to that, "because I know the real meaning of the word,which most people in the internet world quite obviously don't,seeing as how they use to out of context so often.

 

[rattus58]

Hi Jack...

You are actually correct about ethics and rules or regulation. A rule IS a rule. As for rubber blunts, I nailed two turkeys, one with an MA3 broadhead while the bird was in flight, and another mistakenly with a rubber blunt, which I grabbed from my hip quiver. The arrow in the flying bird went right through and though the turkey didn't try to fly, it spread its wings and we never saw it again as it glided downhill for over 1/4 mile and was lost forever.

The mistakenly hit turkey with a rubber blunt dropped like a stone. That arrow, by the way, sailed right through the turkey.

Aloha.... :beer:

 

[ravensgait]

What is with people and the word Ethical ??? your ethics are your own .. Seems some don't really know the meaning of the word.

As for hunting ducks with a rubber blunt well if is legal to do then knock yourself out(pun intended)
I have never used a rubber blunt for waterfowl so don't know how effective it would be. I used dulled up BHs and they did the job.

As for shooting them on the ground or water I don't know that it is legal but if so what the heck deer are on the ground and it isn't easy to get into bow range of a duck or goose on land or water.

Rattus geese are the same, they can lock their wings and sail forever..
Randy

 

[rattus58]

Hi Randy....

You're right about ethics being personal when the activity you do is "legal". I'm hoping more jump in here, because I'm just really curious about "attitudes".

For example, is bird hunting with a dog, "ethical"? What is the distinction perceived between ethics, on the one hand, and sportsmanship, on the other, and Sporting!... My own perspective and understanding, is that sportsmanship, as opposed to sporting, is that sportsmanship is amongs/between players, where sporting is amongst the hunter and hunted... ie... "Well I let that pig out of the gate for we shot him to give him a "sporting chance" ... Ok... maybe a little extreme....

Aloha... Tom :beer:

 

[DwayneR]

Hello RAttus,

That arrow, by the way, sailed right through the turkey.

If you quit shooting shadows and silhouettes of birds, this wouldn't happen so often...:wink:


Dwayne

 

[SCS]

I think the "ethics" behind it have as much to do with where you are. I see nothing sporting or ethical about running deer or bear with dogs, bu have no problem using them for rabbits. Really, one isn't any different than the other. Dogs are accepted down south for deer and in the north for bear.
Steve

 

[meesier42]

ethical- I can't say for sure if its ethical or not because I am not sure how effectively they will kill the animal. I have been shooting a good bit of aerials this year and I have seen what a blunt can do, its pretty impressive how much power is hiding in that little arrow.
Given the above story of going clear through a turkey and droppig it like a stone, I would have to think it is probably ethical I can't be sure though as I have never seen it. but the point is, if you are sure that the blunt will quickly and humanly kill the animal, then sure its ethical.

 

[rattus58]

The gentlemen who were shooting these ducks indicated that they had lost 4 ducks out of 147 attempts... pretty fair return I'd say.... :grin:

Aloha... :beer:

 

[Jack NZ]

Actualy ethics have nothing to do with your personal standards,they are applied rules preset for a given situation.
How you personaly feel about the situation has no bearing on how you are required to act,because the rules (ethics of the situation) have already been set by a controling body and you are required to act within them.
Morals are a whole different story,and are what most people seem to really mean when they use the word "ethics".
A prime situation is in law,where you won't find to many lawyers who are willing to act in an unethical manner,,,,,,,,but they are part of a proffession where their personal morals are often called into question by people that don't understand the ethics of the proffession.
Belive me,I took a class on this one and most of us got it wrong first time round.
And Ravensgait,your comment was the first thing that most of us said.
Rattus,if you can get a pass through with a rubber blunt,,,,,dang what ever your shooting must be really smoking.

 

[rattus58]

Hi Jack,

That was a 60# Martin Longbow drawn to 31" maybe and a roughly 700 grain arrow at a very few yards. Rubber blunts are nothing to laugh at. They go through lot's of stuff besides turkeys and ducks... try them sometime....

Aloha... :beer:

 

[Jack NZ]

Hi Jack,

That was a 60# Martin Longbow drawn to 31" maybe and a roughly 700 grain arrow at a very few yards. Rubber blunts are nothing to laugh at. They go through lot's of stuff besides turkeys and ducks... try them sometime....

Aloha... :beer:

Ok,700g at 31 must have had a lot to do with it huh.
Would of been an impressive sight to see.
My own experiences with blunts have been shooting rats at a local ruubish dump, where they couldn't help but work well.
What stopped me from using them on other animals was something that happened about 20 years ago.
I was heading off to hunt Wallabys for the very first time and I went to a local Archery/bowhunting shop for advice.
The owner handed me a couple of blunts an told me they would drop a Wallaby in it's tracks.
Well I got a clean shot a big buck Wallaby at 10 yards,55lb Martin Mamba,500g arrow, directly to the arm pit.
It lifted him off the ground an drove him back about 3 feet,should of had a chest full of busted ribs an blown lungs,,,,,,,,,and he might of but I'll never know as he got straight back up and made tracks for the hills.
I put a good dog on him about 3 hours later,but after covering around 2 miles and coming back in a large circle to the same area I hit him,I gave up in disgust,,,,,,more with myself than anything else.
I know bad things do happen even with sharp broadheads,but man that made a lasting impression on me.
I think about it every time somebody talks about blunting larger animals for sport:zip:

 

[rattus58]

i think there to be huge difference between a wallaby and a duck or turkey. I've been working with our Wildlife Agency here on just that very issue of blunts in general, not necessarily just rubber, for Turkey hunting, and more and more that I get into this, the more I'm getting information on a lot of innovative types of heads, some of which were popular many years ago, such as snares for flying birds.

I've never hit a rat or rabbit with a blunt, but I've no doubt the result. By the way, I use rubber blunts becuase of my wood arrows. I use 38 caliber casings as well, but in grassy areas, these can get buried, where its much harder, but not impossible to do so with rubber blunts.

This is not meant to be a thread about blunts where legally allowed, I'm trying to develop some argument on some of these "perceptions".

Shooting birds on the ground for example, is it ethical?

Aloha... :beer:

 

[Dchiefransom]

The "ethics" of shooting birds on the ground or water come from hunting with firearms. It's seen as too easy by those that have a freezer full of meat from the supermarket. Shooting any animal with a bow and arrow is hard enough that most people I know would not say anything at all about the ethics of shooting them while they are sitting on ground or water.

 

[CLASSICHUNTER]

Laws

IN Ontario canada it is illegal to shoot waterfowl on the water or ground ducks or geese and if I remember turkeys while roosting as well...these are laws not to be broken...

 

[rattus58]

Hi Classic... that is a different situation you are quoting.. where the law states itself that you cannot shoot them on the ground/ water/roosting etc. I'm referring to where the law is silent or specifically permissable... Breaking rules seems to be "un-ethical" to me... :grin:

 

[Jack NZ]

Outside of the legal restrictions,I don't really see anything wrong/unethical,immoral,unsporting or what ever you want to call it, with bowhunters taking birds on the ground.
As stated already,most of the rules were made to cover gun hunters and to keep things "sporting".
The "sporting" realities are different for bowhunters so maybe the laws should reflect that.

 

[CLASSICHUNTER]

generalization

Guys you are right if the laws are not broken down specifically for bow hunters then its fair play I will check my regs just to see... usually here it is by animal or bird specie and those rules apply to all types of hunting even sling shot...

 

[soflanut]

Ethics are set by a person or a group of people with like interests. If I or the group states we will not shoot birds with blunt tips eventho it's legal, that would fall under ethics. Ethic is not law but may laws have been enacted base on ethics.

So if you want to shoot ducks with a blunt, check with your local laws and follow them.

 

[rattus58]

Hi Sofalnut....

You're right of course about ethics being personal. How do you feel about bear baiting? :grin:

Aloha... :beer: