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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Heres another one of those scenerios where I ask you to respond by telling us, "What would you do?" The idea here is to basis the scenerio on a topic that is either controversial or causes you to make a decision based on ethics, morals, or common sense. Then we can debate each others view point. Just something to do on Friday. I won't claim that every topic will win an award, only make you think. In addition, I hope it makes for good conversation.

Scenerio:
You are participating in a drawn quota hunt on state or government owned land that regularly produces trophy bucks. You are hunting in a designated area along with other hunters that have been drawn for the hunt. So you understand you are not alone. You have had 2 days prior to the hunt to scout the area and feel pretty good with your stand choice. You make it to your stand early before dawn. You are set-up and ready as it breaks day. As you scan the ridge line you spot another hunter climbing a tree, roughly 100 yds away. Although it is somewhat irritaitng, you just stay put because his set-up should not jeopardize yours, besides he has as much right as you. The deer are coming from a wheat field and should work their way past you first and maybe if the guy is lucky, he may have an opportunity to take one of the deer that comes by to high or too low for you to shoot. Who knows maybe the two of you can assist one another in getting the deer out of the woods.

All of a sudden you hear something. A doe slides through under your stand posturing, tail cocked and looking behind her. You then hear the tell-tale sign of a buck grunt. Out of the thick brush he emerges. One quick glance and you know this buck will be your best ever. You come to full draw and settle in. He walks out and gives you the perfect 18 yd quartering away shot. You release, the arrow strikes and, and as he runs straight in the direction of the hunter set up 100 yds away, you notice the arrow sticking out of the deers chest. Your first thought is, maybe he will see the deer crash and be able to aid in the recovery. Then, as you watch, you see the guy stand, draw, and shoot. As he does you see the deer head down hill toward a god foresaken thicket.

After a wait. You climb down and walk to the hunters stand. As you arrives you introduce yourself and ask the guy where the deer went. You explain that you made a good shot on the deer prior to it running toward him. The guy says, "I shot a deer myself, a good buck, can't say that I seen your deer!" You explain that you both shot at the same deer. He says, " The deer I shot had not been shot before, it just came running through the woods and stopped right there!" You tell him that you are positive the deer is one in the same. He climbs down and together you pick up the trail. The blood is little but the tracks lead you to it. The thicket is nasty and almost impassible. When the deer is found, it is a magnificent 12 pt with a long drop of the right main beam, just as you remember and it only has one hole in its chest. We are talking a Booner! The guy say, "Man I made a good shoot!" You say, " Who made a good shot!" "I did" he claims! There is no arrow to be found and the wound is high behind the shoulder with no exit. You are sure that you shot this deer and the wound is indicative of the arrow sticking out of the deer. You tell the other hunter that only one of you hit this deer. He bostfully tells you, "Yeah, I did, you must have missed or have gotten this deer mixed up with another!" You are getting upset but hold your composure and suggest that arrows need to be found to determine who's deer it really is. He smirks and says, "Okay show me your arrow." You say let me back track and find it. As you work back in the direction form where you shot him, you find your shaft some 80 yds in that direction. You then take the arrow to the guy and show it to him. He says, "Okay you found your arrow but where is the proof that this is the deer you shot. You ask, "Where is your arrow"? He says, " Probably somewhere in this thicket where it got pulled out. You say, "C'mon man, you missed, that deer was running when it came past you, hitting him would have been pure luck!" He suggest, "Well show me the blood trail, from your stand to mine. You agree. The two of you go back to the spot where the deer was standing when you shot. There is no sign other than tracks where he spun to run. So you begin to follow the trail. You walk and walk but there is no blood. Soon you are below his stand site and find a faint drop. "See, I told you", he exclaims. At this time you are furious. You know that this is your deer. You know the high impact angle of the shot without an exit required the cavity to fill before the blood eventually trickled out. You have your arrow in hand with proof. He has none. Yes the sign doesn't begin until the deer reached his area but still you've been playing this game long enough to rationalize why.

The guy says, "Well I'm sorry buddy, but I can't debate this any longer, I need to get this deer tagged and dressed, hope you find yours!

What would you do?
 

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hehehe...

Pull out my .45 ACP and ask him "who's deer is this?"... I'd get the right answer then. :mg: :embarasse

JUST KIDDING!!!!!! :zip:

Man, that'd be a tough one. BUT, I could solve the problem VERY easily. If you BOTH shot at the deer and hit it, there would be a minimum of two holes in the deer. If there was only one hole, only one of you could have hit it. Since you have your bloody arrow, you hit A deer (playing devils's advocate). If you hit THIS deer, it means that he DID NOT hit it. His arrow must still be back in the area where he shot at the deer.... I'd be off like a jack-rabbit trying to find HIS arrow... with no blood on it. If you find his arrow, no blood = that's your deer. If you find his arrow w/blood, then I'd concede and say it's HIS deer b/c he probably was able to track it longer (visually) from his position 100 yards closer. You better go start looking for YOUR deer..... and try not to cry while doing it.

If you can't find his arrow, then you are still at an impass. I'd start analyzing the entrance wound.... 3 blade head holes look different than 2 blader holes.... SOME mech holes look different than fixed blade holes. If you are both shooting Muzzy 3 bladers.... well.... someone is gonna get screwed in this deal. :(

-ZA206
 

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hmmmmmmmm

i would call the csi team in to do a dna test on my arrow :) i would get my cell out of my pack and call vthe dnr and let them fix this mess before i did somthing real bad!!!!
 

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Since it's hypothetical, I would go back and look for the blood trail starting point again. If you made a good shot, there will be evidence. Other than than, find his arrow.

If you don't , you are screwed. All evidence in the scenario points to the fact that it is HIS deer like it or not. Chalk it up to a fluke, tell your story to your buddies. Nobody is going to believe you so you may just want to keep it to yourself.
 

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We are going to go find his arrow. If he missed than chances are that it is sticking in the ground near where he shot. If I can't find his arrow I am probably going to sit down and cry. I have a bloody arrow and no blood trail and he has a blood trail and no arrow. I am going to call the game warden for a last ditch effort to claim my deer. Show the warden the tracks from my stand the lead to his blood trail and show him the shot and explain why it didn't bleed till it got under his stand. OR call the game warden. destory the faint blood trail and claim your deer.

Spotshy- good scenerio
 

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Is he bigger than me? Does he ever turn his back? Is there a really big stick laying close by?
He is about to wake up with a huge headache!!!!!
It's my deer!
 

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Why does the burden of proof rest solely on the first shooter?

Had I been the first shooter, I wouldn't let the guy even touch that deer until he shows me his bloody arrow. If there's only one hole in the deer, and its the deer I shot, and I have a bloody arrow, that's my deer until HE proves he shot it. End of story...

Looking at the facts of the case from an arbitrator's standpoint:

- We've got a dead deer with one hole in it.
- We've got shooter #1 with a bloody arrow.
- We've got shooter #2 who CLAIMS to have shot the deer.
- We don't have a bloody arrow from Shooter #2.

The burden of proof rests on Shooter #2. Without a bloody arrow from Shooter #2, the ruling would be in favor of Shooter #1 every time.
 

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We are going to find his arrow!

If we cannot find it, then I dont even know what to do! We should be able to find the arrow, I have my proof! Where is his proof? I'm draggin my deer on out of the woods!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Guys,

This scenerio is somewhat a dipiction of a couple of events that I witnessed. There were some differences but I took the liberty of adapting it to something a bow hunter might relate to or encounter. In the first original version, a friend of mine shot a deer with a muzzeloader on a quota hunt. The deer runs and falls in a creek. Another hunter comes out of the woodwork on the opposide side of the creek and starts unloading a slug gun at the deer that is folicking trying to get up. My friend runs to the scene and the guy claims, "That's my deer!" My friend says "Oh really!" Then non-chalantley wades out into the creek chest deep in 30 degree weather, grabs the deer and pulls it out on his side. He then tells the guy, "If it's your deer, and you're man enough, come on over and get it!" Needless to say he retained his animal. Upon inspection, there was only one hole in the deer and it was from a 50 cal muzzleloader. The idiot had missed 4 times from 15 yds away with a slug gun and was still going to try to claim the deer. Now that's funny right there!

In the second original version, I shot a decent 8 point at 20 yds through the ribs with a slug. The buck ran down into a hollow and these two yahoo's unloaded on it. They hit it through both shoulders, the guts, the loin, and both back hams. When I got to them and the buck, one of the guys readily claimed, "We put him down, so he's ours!" I just shook my head and said, "Okay, hope the hamburger tastes good". I thought to myself, if that is their idea of hunting, let them have it. I ended up killing a 135 class 8 the next day.
 

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I agree, I am gonna find his arrow...either in his quiver, in the dirt, or in the brush. If I find it in his quiver, or the dirt, he is gonna find my boot up his arse. If we find it in the brush, it had better have some sign on it before I relinquish a Booner. If we don't find it, a call will be made to the dnr. Hopefully the conservation officer shows up before the mudhole I stomped in the guy's arse is walked dry.

As a twist, what if you both hit the deer? Who gets it? A lot of people would say first blood, others would say the more lethal of the two shots. sorry, not to make this one harder, but I always wondered about both of these situations

Hat's off to SpotShy for making my friday afternoon at work go faster!
 

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Well, there would have to be some hair on the ground where you hit the buck, even if there is no blood the hair would be there.
Sadly I'm not as calm as most and old school.
There would be a fight. especialy if I knew I hit it and it did indeed run past his stand.The smurk would have set me off.
Good scenerio though wonder how many times this happens a season.
 

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In my book...

If two guys shoot the same deer, the 1st shooter gets priority unless it's a non-lethal wound. The determination of "non-lethal wound" is where it always gets interesting... :rolleyes:

-ZA206

Bowhunter20 said:
I agree, I am gonna find his arrow...either in his quiver, in the dirt, or in the brush. If I find it in his quiver, or the dirt, he is gonna find my boot up his arse. If we find it in the brush, it had better have some sign on it before I relinquish a Booner. If we don't find it, a call will be made to the dnr. Hopefully the conservation officer shows up before the mudhole I stomped in the guy's arse is walked dry.

As a twist, what if you both hit the deer? Who gets it? A lot of people would say first blood, others would say the more lethal of the two shots. sorry, not to make this one harder, but I always wondered about both of these situations

Hat's off to SpotShy for making my friday afternoon at work go faster!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I bet this happens quite often in states during gun season where the hunter numbers are high compared to the land available.


My response:

The guy is going to have to produce a bloody arrow, period! If no arrow is produced, the deer will go home with me unless he can take me mano to mano.

Here in KY, a GW probably wouldn't even respond to a call of this situation. We only have like one per county and the response time, if they did come maybe hours or days. Besides, I ain't leaving the deer to go meet the warden to bring him to the local.

The serious part of this scenerio is that there are people out there that would claim a deer like this that either know they missed or who had never shot. I have always wondered how anyone could do this or steal a deer that they did not kill, but it happens.
 

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I agree with some of the others that he would need to show his arrow that he hit the deer with. Untill he could do that I would not leave the deer. If he could not find his arrow and wouldn't give up that it was his, I would call the DNR.

With the lethal hit thing if two people shoot it, that is always a good one to get the blood pumping.

Also in this case we are talking bow hutning where you have an arrow as evidence, things become way harder when its a gun so there is not evidence of what hit it. At least its a lot harder to figure out, especially if the person thinks they are in the right.
 

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Compare broadheads to the entrance wound, 3 or 4 blade etc. Might help.

I keep the game warden's number in my back pocket for this exact reason. I would call him immediately from my cell phone and give him our location so it would be easier for him to find the bod . . . , I mean find us logically discussing the matter. ;) If the guy tried to leave with the deer I would follow the guy to his truck and make sure I got the plate number year etc. Then I would pursue every legal means available to get the deer back and make that guys life a living hell.

Honestly, I try to never put myself in this situation. I don't like hunting with a few hundred yards of anyone. I also use large mechanicals in heavily hunted areas to put deer down fast.
 
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