[zap]

Yeah, for sure. An ultimate display of sack.

I only wonder whether her section of the perimeter will hold when she is in the next foxhole over and the North Koreans are about to launch another human wave attack?

This is because she is a fresh replacement after the last three North Korean human wave attacks on our position ended in hand to hand combat because we did not have enough organic firepower to keep them from getting through the wire?

I wonder this because this same female Caption is at such great risk from sexual assault from US forces on the FOB that I am not allowed to leave my tent with fewer than three males? The theory being that it is more difficult to go raping someone when you have not one, but two (2) buddies with you.

maybe not the ultimate display.....:lol:....if you have some extra pvs-14's I could use a set....:lol:

 

[eskimoohunt]

Just listened to the last podcast .... both make good points, I'm in the camp of the scent control helps maybe some but not much
IMO there are too many variables on what a deer can actually smell like your bow your arrows your climber if you touch it putting it in your car etc. freakin too many variables.

In addition I get way more deer hunting tips from Dan, John tips are on hunting from a saddle and scentlok

I'd like to have others chime in case I'm missing something

 

[zap]

If the only tips your are getting from Eberhardt are scentlok and saddle hunting your not paying attention.

 

[eskimoohunt]

If the only tips your are getting from Eberhardt are scentlok and saddle hunting your not paying attention.

Can you elaborate? Primary scrape areas maybe. Exit and entry routes? Anything else?

 

[zap]

Can you elaborate? Primary scrape areas maybe. Exit and entry routes? Anything else?

You already found two.....keep up the good work....:lol:

 

[eskimoohunt]

No offense to john but that's not ground breaking information, what Dan does is. Also he has multiple you tube videos and DVDs actually showing you Topo maps and going in those areas live in the field..showing you beds off points. Actual doe beds in cover and much more

IMO I've learned a ton from Dan not so much from John

Anyone else?

 

[zap]

Actually Eberhardts tactics are more applicable to the average bowhunter because they are mostly focusing on rut.....90%+ of bowhunters take vacations to hunt based on rut timing.

Infalt also has good info to share. But a smart person gets info from many places and then utilizes what will work best for them.

To do that you need an open mind. Saying Eberhardt only knows saddle and scentlok is nonsense. You can hate whoever you want to but you do not get to make up your own 'facts'.

 

[ehan69]

eskimoohunt, I cannot agree enough that Dan

[via his DVD's (I especially like his original series "Farm Country Bucks: How to Hunt Deer," "Hill Country Bucks: Best Deer Hunting,") and "Hunting Marsh Bucks") along with the newer updated series (available on his website: http://www.thehuntingbeast.com/hbshop/)]

has released the lodestone of whitetail hunting.

Dan's techniques are so groundbreaking and effective I am always surprised when I tell my buddies about them and they completely ignore? The old adage, "you can "lead a horse to water ..." would seem to apply.

I am embarrassed to say that I thought his information was complete with the last of his "Blood Brothers" DVD's above.

However on a recent drive home to Waco from Nashville I was able to listen to the first eight podcasts in Dan and Mario Trafficante's Q&A series via the "The Hunting Beast - Extreme Whitetail Tactics" YouTube channel (found here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb0IaDRgP7gsTAslJ6D32w)and I believe he is just getting started.

I listened to their section on "community scrapes" at least three times because I believe I found exactly that last year during the season while blood trailing a buck I shot.

I liked Dan and Mario's explanation of a community scrape in the context of your needing to find them during the season because they are gone come January. I also liked the points they made that community scrapes begin producing as early as the beginning of October as well as year after year.

I am therefore at present attempting to align Dan and Mario's new podcast information re community scrapes with Paul*Ranft's points in Dan's DVD "Farm Country Bucks: How to Hunt Deer" that "you need*to*leave* your* stand* when* wind* is* not* optimal* for* your* stand" because if what I found last season is a community scrape and I only have two days total this year to hunt I have to decide how to hunt it in any wind conditions.

Because based on Dan and Mario's good information I believe that is my now my number one stand site. I believe I the scrape I found is a community scrape because it looked like three or four overlapping scrapes. Here is a pic:

Sidebar: I believe, like Eberhart, Paul*Ranft is from Michigan and has killed at least 49 P&Y bucks.

Zap, PVS-14's. lol

 

[gjs4]

Beside myself on this being a thread let alone on AT... feeling like this is the aftershock of UFC fights gone by.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[bowhuntercoop]

I have much respect for both of them, they are both amazing hunters. The last 3-4 years I've been using more of dans style to hunt public land and it has worked quite well for me. I still read jons books in the summer for a refresher. I think dans a better teacher though.

 

[zap]

'We have a split decision'.....:lol:

 

[SteepandDeep]

I have listened to both and have learned more from Dan over the last 8 years than anyone else. I hunt to have fun and I have gotten to the point that i am killing good bucks on public and have lots of good encounters each year using lessons I have learned from Dan. The whole scent control game doesn't sound like fun but rather stressful. I feel good when I go into the woods with a flannel, cotton camo bdu pants, my lone wolf on my back and set up based on the wind. I want that wind blowing where a deer may smell it but hopefully not and once in a while I get a crack at a good one.

 

[eskimoohunt]

I have listened to both and have learned more from Dan over the last 8 years than anyone else. I hunt to have fun and I have gotten to the point that i am killing good bucks on public and have lots of good encounters each year using lessons I have learned from Dan. The whole scent control game doesn't sound like fun but rather stressful. I feel good when I go into the woods with a flannel, cotton camo bdu pants, my lone wolf on my back and set up based on the wind. I want that wind blowing where a deer may smell it but hopefully not and once in a while I get a crack at a good one.

Good point here on scent control being stressful!! I sweat no matter how many cloths I bungie to my stand or how slow I go. If I'm all dressed in base layer scent lok all the way through a jacket and pant headset etc. I think all that sweat voids the shower I took at 4am

I know john believes in scent control but his speal over shadows some of his hunting tactics

 

[flinginairos]

No offense to john but that's not ground breaking information, what Dan does is. Also he has multiple you tube videos and DVDs actually showing you Topo maps and going in those areas live in the field..showing you beds off points. Actual doe beds in cover and much more

IMO I've learned a ton from Dan not so much from John

Anyone else?

Same here. I won't discredit John at all because I feel his info is good, but trying to locate primary scrape areas and an isolated food source just doesn't cut it where I hunt. You absolutely HAVE TO know where the bucks are bedded to have a chance. Since learning some tactics from Dan my encounters with good bucks has went way up and I have killed a good buck every year in early-mid October since 2013. Dan shows you exactly where to look and if you take the time to scout the areas he talks about you'll quickly find out he knows what he's doing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ehan69]

If you watch Dan?s new hunting journal here:

https://youtu.be/Qr-C1JhDjrA

Starting at about 34:00, do you think that buck would have busted Mario the same way if:

A. Mario employed a full Eberhart scent control routine?;
B. Mario employed a full Eberhart scent control routine AND used an Ozonics?, or;
C. Mario employed no scent control routine and only had an Ozonics?

Because my theory is that we CAN have our cake and eat it too by employing both Dan and Mario?s techniques simultaneously.

Any thoughts?

 

[B3AV3R]

I know John. To say that his philosophy is to "forget the wind and just hunt" could not be further from the truth.
His scent control measures border on obsessive compulsive. The lengths he goes to to remain scent free, coupled with his carbon suit, meticulously planned entry and exit routes and propensity for hunting high allow him to hunt the way he does.

 

[kyler1945]

Very good post and well thought out, although I disagree with the part you said that I put in red. Deer can gauge a scent's age. How does a buck know which way to follow the trail of a hot doe? He can turn and trot 10 feet with his nose to the ground and then turn around 180 degrees and follow the track the right way. I have seen it. I have also seen deer follow scent put on a drag rag. If he was following which way the scent was stronger, he would follow it the wrong way every time, but he follows it the correct way because he knows which way is older. Make sense?

It does make sense, and you're right. I should have clarified here. In the same way the dog is rewarded for following the scent he was trained to, a deer is rewarded with a hot doe if he follows her scent. He does that in the same way a dog does at first. However, If he cut your trail, and then wanted to follow it to you, he'd be rewarded with a trip to the deer camp. Deer aren't going to follow your scent to you to determine which direction you came from (unless of course in the instance you described with drag rags). They're going to hit your trail like a brick wall, and depending on the deer's age, experience with hunters, and whether it's during daylight hours or not, will move away from the scent. My experience with the more mature deer has shown them usually going right back where they came from because they remember it to be safe. I know all deer are different, and some folks hunt property where deer are either more used to human scent(urban zones), or they don't get shot at when they encounter hunters (managed land with deer restrictions). But on public land, deer have to learn pretty quick to head the opposite direction in a hurry.

 

[Freelance Bowhunter]

It does make sense, and you're right. I should have clarified here. In the same way the dog is rewarded for following the scent he was trained to, a deer is rewarded with a hot doe if he follows her scent. He does that in the same way a dog does at first. However, If he cut your trail, and then wanted to follow it to you, he'd be rewarded with a trip to the deer camp. Deer aren't going to follow your scent to you to determine which direction you came from (unless of course in the instance you described with drag rags). They're going to hit your trail like a brick wall, and depending on the deer's age, experience with hunters, and whether it's during daylight hours or not, will move away from the scent. My experience with the more mature deer has shown them usually going right back where they came from because they remember it to be safe. I know all deer are different, and some folks hunt property where deer are either more used to human scent(urban zones), or they don't get shot at when they encounter hunters (managed land with deer restrictions). But on public land, deer have to learn pretty quick to head the opposite direction in a hurry.

It's not a point of clarification. I disagree with what you said. There is a big difference between a buck being able to determine the strength of a smell versus the age of a smell. Two totally different concepts.

 

[eskimoohunt]

I listened to this a couple times. John has some great post scouting tips and some solid hunting strategies

Dan is the master of all deer beds, stand approach and he thinks like a deer too

I gotta say most people can do wjat John does after learning from him

With Dan I give anyone a lot more credit than me if you hike through a mile of cattails to get to secluded locations

More power to you!!! I’d get lost in a heartbeat. That crap is tall and thick let alone on the damn dark

 

[Early Ice]

what most don't realize is scent control is a crock of BS. The reason I know is because I went from one spectrum to the other. Most haven't. If you get bagged with nothing, no shower, no carbon, no gimmick...you'll get bagged with whatever else you are using. I can vouch for both sides. Now, all i do is play the wind and plan routes to and from. I actually get bagged less with being more smart and using NOTHING. there are days I don't even shower and have deer all over me.

The reality is, if a thermal is rising, you could take a dump on your platform and NOT get winded. The reality is, when a deer walks downwind with a ozonics and you don't get busted it's not because they are confused, the thermals are correct and you'd get away with it ozonics or not.

I'm a WI guy, a state where the deer jump out of their skin at first smell of a human. I'll side on Dan Infaults side simply because I know the marshes he hunts and the pressure in those areas and he still kills deer. I think Dan himself would completely agree with what i've said. Thermals, swirling winds, wind direction, land contours...if more would think about that stuff over a product to "cover" their mistakes I believe more would have that "ah ha" moment.....

30 years ago I soaked my clothing in fox piss, deer still bagged you. Sprayed skunk scent on the ground, deer still go you if everything was wrong wind wise. False sense of security has the hunting world in a strangle hold.