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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys I have a question regarding arrows for an 80lb bow. I have new limbs on order and will need new arrows once they arrive.

I'm shooting a 2015 carbon spyder zt 30, 28.5in draw length. Its shooting a beman ICS hunter 340 finished weight 440gr around 280fps. These arrows were cut for a 29.5in draw length so they're an inch longer than they could be.

Now here's my question. I would really like to be between 450 and 460gr finished arrow weight. I haven't really found the arrow that puts me there at my draw length.

If I stick with the beman ICS hunter and go 300 spine and cut them to my draw length I will end up at 436gr finished arrow weight. I could cut them to the same length of my current arrows and end up at 445gr finished weight.

The next arrow I'm considering is the easton axis 300 that would put me at about a 465gr finished weight.

Now how much difference in ke and momentum will there be between a 436gr Arrow at close to 300fps and 465gr arrow in the 280fps range?

I'm kinda leaning toward the heavier arrow but if the ke and no is similar I might opt for the lighter beman.

I'm open to opinions in an arrow that will get me to my desired arrow weight as well. Thanks in advance for any help!
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Also these will mainly be used for hunting whitetail and turkey. Hopefully elk in the next year ir two as well. With a lot of target practice mixed in.
 

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Although the KE will be similar (within 2-4 lbs of ke) the heavier arrow will hold it much longer So go with the heavier arrow. I shoot a 480 grn arrow for this reason. My 400grn arrow shoots at 71.47 ke and my 480 is 76.34 ke. At 25 yards it's around 64 for the 400 and around 71 for the 480. If that helps


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Your arrow speed to arrow weight is in correct. The heavier arrow at 280 shows less k.e. Then the arrow at 300. This can't happen you may not gain but you won't lose. Not in this range of weight.


Don't worry about k.e. Momentum is what you look at. But your not going to see a difference in them two arrows at 40 yards or less.

Build what you want. My opinion is go with the heavy one. To me that is light. I shoot med weight. 500 to 550
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm newer to archery so still learning the ke and momentum stuff. Arrow speeds are estimates. Tell me if this sounds more accurate. So with a jump in 10lbs on draw weight would net about an 18fps increase in speed. So my 400gr arrow would be about 298fps. The 436gr arrow would be about 299fps. Which would put the 465 at about 290fps not 280. So if there is a considerable difference in momentum between the heavier and lighter arrow I would prefer the 465gr. I might even try and go heavier if the 465 would be close to 290fps. 280 to 290 is plenty fast imo
 

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It's hard to estimate arrow speeds. You need to see if you can get a test through a chrono But no matter what the numbers are. There are more benifits by shooting the 465 gn over the 400. But both will kill as long as you do your job.

I tend to way over think this. So don't get to cought up in it. But if your the type that just can't help it as I am. Read Dr ashbey writings. Lots of good info.

Lots of opinions on this site. None wrong. You just need to choose what you want.

Good luck with your new adventure.
 

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If the arrow weight goes up, the KE goes up, the MO goes up.....as long as the arrow is properly spined, and tuned correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It's hard to estimate arrow speeds. You need to see if you can get a test through a chrono But no matter what the numbers are. There are more benifits by shooting the 465 gn over the 400. But both will kill as long as you do your job.

I tend to way over think this. So don't get to cought up in it. But if your the type that just can't help it as I am. Read Dr ashbey writings. Lots of good info.

Lots of opinions on this site. None wrong. You just need to choose what you want.

Good luck with your new adventure.
Yes I am definitely way over thinking this. As I do with most things. I like to have the optimal setup for whatever hobby I am doing lol.

The estimated speeds are based off of what I'm shooting in techno hunt at my shop. It measures the speed at 20yds. I will definitely have to either get myself a chrono or bug the shop about it. I'd really like to get some real numbers. I will definitely check out this Dr. Ashby. Ha as for choosing what I want that's the hard part. I always over think things which makes me very indecisive lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If the arrow weight goes up, the KE goes up, the MO goes up.....as long as the arrow is properly spined, and tuned correctly.
I trust my shop so I'm confident the bow is tuned properly and that they will set me up with the correct spine arrow
 

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Yes I am definitely way over thinking this. As I do with most things. I like to have the optimal setup for whatever hobby I am doing lol.

The estimated speeds are based off of what I'm shooting in techno hunt at my shop. It measures the speed at 20yds. I will definitely have to either get myself a chrono or bug the shop about it. I'd really like to get some real numbers. I will definitely check out this Dr. Ashby. Ha as for choosing what I want that's the hard part. I always over think things which makes me very indecisive lol.
OCD. What a great thing
 

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If the arrow weight goes up, the KE goes up, the MO goes up.....as long as the arrow is properly spined, and tuned correctly.
This is wrong....

With a heavier arrow out of same bow same DL the momentum will go up but KE will go down slightly. The only way KE will go up with heavier arrow is if you up DW or add DL.
 

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Elk is the only reason I'd go heavier than I am now...375 grs/310 fps/79.9 ke/.515 mo...Deer/bear and hogs are dead meat with this combo and a Wac 'em 4 blade.... Elk I'll go to 425/450 grs and go from 62 lbs to 65 lbs draw weight and I'd use a good COC head...... way to much is put into this Ashby stuff ..... Its not that hard to kill critters with a reasonably weight arrow/fixed heads and a well tuned bow .... been doing it for 30ish years ..... dont over think it .....
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
This is wrong....

With a heavier arrow out of same bow same DL the momentum will go up but KE will go down slightly. The only way KE will go up with heavier arrow is if you up DW or add DL.
Good to know! Thanks for the info!

If anyone has any suggestions on arrows that would keep me around 450 grains I'd like to hear them.
 

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Good to know! Thanks for the info!

If anyone has any suggestions on arrows that would keep me around 450 grains I'd like to hear them.
Victory vap 250s, I have an 81lb dw 30" and I use 28.5" vap inserts w/ 100grn head and am at 460grn. You could cut off some length and go to 125grn heads.
 

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OP...
Out of a CS ZT 30 with 80lbs limbs @28.5 DL....the 440n arrow will fly around 300fps and the 465n arrow will fly around 308-310 if the advertised IBO is dead on. The differences in momentum and KE are minimal. However, if you get to 465gns by increasing the weight up front you will be weak. The 440n will be good in spine (meaning that you will use a lighter tip up front).
In either case both KE and momentum will go up as you increase arrow weight. Someone mentioned that the KE will decrease. Not true!!!!
Now if you get to 465gns by increasing the weight in the back (heavier vanes or heavier nock) you will stiffen the arrow and you should be OK in spine.

Bottom line is that if you keep the arrows in proper spine, you will not see much difference between the two. do not sweat it too much.
If you really want to find out exact numbers and have the time to experiment, buy yourself the program OnTarget 2 and play with it, It is very accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
With these selections there is no weight added up front. Using a 100gr tip. The fletchings that will be used are 3 4in vanes that are 31gr for the 3 and I do shoot nockturnal knocks so a 20gr nock. The lighter arrow is a beman ICS and the heavier arrow is an easton axis.
 
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