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Kisik Lee Style GRIP / Putty Grip?

5867 Views 30 Replies 21 Participants Last post by  kshet26
Hi all,

I've been wondering for a while whether there is a customized grip on the market that really supports the KSL style of shooting. I'm currently using a Jager grip with my Win&Win Inno. However, people who have been on Team USA say that the Jager grips aren't the shape that they use. That the palm isn't wide enough or angled correctly on the left edge (for a right handed shooter).

I see the top people slamming on mounds of putty to sculpt the right customized shape, and it leaves me wondering "just what the hell are they doing to their bow? I want in on this awesome grip secret". I am not a sculptor and would prefer to just buy a grip that supports the ksl form and shoulder alignment / bow hand & wrist placement.

A) Are there any grips that you can buy that are already the shape that all these putty-modified grips are going for?
B) For my and everyone's education, what is the right shape? If I were to modify my Jager grip with putty how should I do it? There must be specific direction/displacement of force that the putty-grips guide?

*PS: I like my Jager grip a lot and have no complaints, but it feels like something's missing

Thanks
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It always is, but what variables do you put into the equation and which do you leave out.
In your equation I'm missing the certainty of a good grip outcome and the time spend shaping instead of practicing shooting.
I remember similar threads years ago. At the time I knew darn well that I didn't know enough about grips to build one up from scratch. Buying a Jager grip was the way to go for me. These days, I know more of the feel I'm comfortable with, and know that I just can't do the full high wrist grip without spraining my wrist, and I'm more likely to mod with epoxy. (Still not giving up the Jager grip, though... :embara: )
 

· Genesis 21:20
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However, people who have been on Team USA say that the Jager grips aren't the shape that they use.
LOL. Maybe not anymore. ;)

My how times have changed.
 

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Guys -

This is sort of a hot button for me, and my students know it.

Years ago, we didn't have all these options and tweaks. One of the best bare bow shooters in my old club often said that he never customized a bow. It was just cheaper to make him fit the bow, than the other way around. The real difference is that the former forces the shooter to actually know what he's doing, rather than trying to make a "perfect" fit - which most of the time is being done by people who don't really know what they need. In effect, I really do think that the archers of 40+ years ago were actually "better" shooters than the current crop of "instant fix" types we have today. I've been shooting the same riser with factory grip for the last 10 years. Whether "it" works, or I've grown into it is moot. It fits and it ain't getting changed (and yes, it took some time to figure out how to come to grips with it...

Back to the OP's question, before you start modifying anything, do you really know what you're trying to achieve? The "bondo" modifications have to be done with the "I wish the grip were a little more" idea and not trying to fit some kind of mold that some guy used at the last Olympics or some "coach" says you should use. Like I said before, most of these things become non-issues when you actually learn how to shoot.

Tom - after trying the Jager grips on a number of occasions - with the same painful results, I finally sold mine last year.

Viper1 out.
 

· Genesis 21:20
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When you're satisfied to shoot 300's at 70 meters, then grip fit isn't going to be that important. I agree with that. When you're trying to break 320, it becomes very important, and when you're trying to break 340, it's critical.

It all depends on one's level of proficiency.
 

· Jager Archery
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Been reading through comments on this one and find it interesting that I hear from both sides of the aisle on this. Some people say my grips are too wide, while others say they are too narrow. They say they are too high and too low as well. I also know that I have a really high number of return customers. It is really not possible to be everything to everyone. I make a grip that has what I think are important features for achieving more repeatable results based on my observations of successful shooters and coaching techniques. As shooters develop confidence and preferences, they tend to modify these grips. I sell them with and without the palm pad. Most of the ones without are shooters that want a grip that can easily be modified because it is cast solid out of a material that is easy to hone to any shape desired. In the end, I've yet to hear of a geometry that everybody wants. If anyone figures it out, please contact me!

Paul
 

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Paul -

You make a great product, but like you said, it can't fit everybody.
While the idea (design) is sound, the original version was actually painful to shoot after a few ends.
Also not a fan of being "told" how to place my hand on the bow, which is what the design tries to do.
The guy I sold it to is still using it.

On the other hand, the one (I believe you made for the older DAS Elite) fits like a glove.

Viper1 out.
 

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Been reading through comments on this one and find it interesting that I hear from both sides of the aisle on this. Some people say my grips are too wide, while others say they are too narrow. They say they are too high and too low as well. I also know that I have a really high number of return customers. It is really not possible to be everything to everyone. I make a grip that has what I think are important features for achieving more repeatable results based on my observations of successful shooters and coaching techniques. As shooters develop confidence and preferences, they tend to modify these grips. I sell them with and without the palm pad. Most of the ones without are shooters that want a grip that can easily be modified because it is cast solid out of a material that is easy to hone to any shape desired. In the end, I've yet to hear of a geometry that everybody wants. If anyone figures it out, please contact me!

Paul
Well, I have to say I'm really fond of my Jager BEST grip, even though I don't shoot it anymore. I love the quality, and the grippy palm surface. And it taught me that the BEST wrist position causes me to sprain my wrist. If I'd built up a grip on my own, I might have thought I'd done something wrong with the grip design, but since the BEST grip was a "best" in class grip at the time, made to reflect the current trend in grips at the OTC (regardless of what they say now) I could be sure that it is the general geometry of a high wrist grip that doesn't work for me, not some error in grip creation my part.

I really should pass it along to someone who prefers high wrist grip, but the Jager grip was one of my first really good pieces of kit. Kind of hard to let it go :embara:
 

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Guys -

This is sort of a hot button for me, and my students know it.

Years ago, we didn't have all these options and tweaks. One of the best bare bow shooters in my old club often said that he never customized a bow. It was just cheaper to make him fit the bow, than the other way around. The real difference is that the former forces the shooter to actually know what he's doing, rather than trying to make a "perfect" fit - which most of the time is being done by people who don't really know what they need. In effect, I really do think that the archers of 40+ years ago were actually "better" shooters than the current crop of "instant fix" types we have today. I've been shooting the same riser with factory grip for the last 10 years. Whether "it" works, or I've grown into it is moot. It fits and it ain't getting changed (and yes, it took some time to figure out how to come to grips with it...

Back to the OP's question, before you start modifying anything, do you really know what you're trying to achieve? The "bondo" modifications have to be done with the "I wish the grip were a little more" idea and not trying to fit some kind of mold that some guy used at the last Olympics or some "coach" says you should use. Like I said before, most of these things become non-issues when you actually learn how to shoot.

Tom - after trying the Jager grips on a number of occasions - with the same painful results, I finally sold mine last year.

Viper1 out.
I just wanted to say that this was one of the most enjoyable posts I have read in a long time. I totally agree with every bit.
 

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I have been using the Jager 2.0 for over a year now. I love the geometry, the angled edge makes it easy to find the same grip position every time. However, these days I feel like at 70m, the grip is too low. I end up with too much pressure on the bottom of my hand, sometimes causing my bow to "pop up" after the shot. That could just be a problem with my technique. But think about pro bowling. A pro bowler will not change their throw to achieve different results, they change their ball. Once you have achieved good form, you want to keep it. Rather than altering your form which is already getting results, altering the gear allows you to keep your form the same (or close to it). So you might be getting an order from me for a BEST high grip soon paul ;)
 

· 12 stepper for gear...
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I just don't know why people wouldn't "mess" with their gear. If you want to try something... do it. If something bothers you... change it. Maybe you will come up with a great innovation, maybe you will find something that works for you, maybe you will just find a few dozen things that didn't, but you will know yourself and your gear better in the end.

Cheers
 

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I have been using the Jager 2.0 for over a year now. I love the geometry, the angled edge makes it easy to find the same grip position every time. However, these days I feel like at 70m, the grip is too low. I end up with too much pressure on the bottom of my hand, sometimes causing my bow to "pop up" after the shot. That could just be a problem with my technique. But think about pro bowling. A pro bowler will not change their throw to achieve different results, they change their ball. Once you have achieved good form, you want to keep it. Rather than altering your form which is already getting results, altering the gear allows you to keep your form the same (or close to it). So you might be getting an order from me for a BEST high grip soon paul ;)
Ok that explains it. I was having trouble getting the arrows DOWN from the top of the target at 50 meters no matter what I did what my sight and my coach suggested I might be "heeling" the bow -- pressing too much with the heel of my hand. I use a low grip. There could be other factors at play but that one definitely sounds like it has merit.
 

· Sinverguenza
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I've run the gamut, and definitely put in some time and good scores with Paul's grips, both stock and modified:)
I have done epoxy / sugru buildups as well:
Footwear Tire High heels Shoe


My coach has slowly worked my grips lower, and with a deeper throat:
Art


and as my form has improved its just settled in nicely. I know this wasn't specific to the KSL query, but just thought I'd say there's light at the end of the grip tunnel:)
 
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