Well....thinking I'm not the only knife hound here....more info on my search.

Its become obvious to me over the years....the heat treatment is as important as the steel itself for a processing knife. For whatever reason, my Benchmade Steep country in S30v isn't as good as my Buck Alpha in S30v....though both great knives. So my search continues.

Interesting testing done by this guy Jim Ankerson, link to his youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/user/jankerson1

He did a test of many steels cutting 5/8" manilla rope until at 20# pressure it would cut cleanly anymore. Of course many of these knives are still sharper than we have used while processing....but he used it as an edge holding benchmark. Here is his study in case anyone is interested;

RANKING OF STEELS- JIM ANKERSON TESTING

YOUTUBE CHANNEL Jims knife testing
The Testing Process is as follows:

Cutting 5/8" Manila rope on a Scale with wood to cut on. The scale was calibrated for the weight of the wood. Making 3 to 4 slicing cuts from back to tip using the least amount of down force needed to get the starting down force. Once that was established 20 cuts were made then down force was tested again and that continued until 20 LBS was reached.

All the knives started at 14 ~ 15 LBS of down force except for M390 because it cuts so aggressively.

Accuracy is to + or - 10 Cuts and + or - 1 LB of down force or 6%. This was verified doing a blind test of blades of unknown hardness until they were tested after. 2 blades of the same hardness and steel, sharpened the same and same model of knife.

RC hardness is + or - 1 RC on the steels that were tested as the standard of RC testing.

All edges were at 30 degrees inclusive and polished to 6000 grit on the Edge Pro, sharpness was tested by slicing TP clean.

The following data is the results that I got based on the above method, while not conclusive or the end all beat all data it is very accurate.

More steels will be added as they are tested.

Category 1

CPM-S90V (Military and Para 2) (60)
CTS-20CP (Para 2) (60)
M390 (Mule) (60.5)
CTS - 204P (Para 2)

Category 2

M390 (60)
CPM M4 (62.5)
CPM-S90V (59) (Manix 2 with 30 Degree Micro Bevel)
CPM-S60V
VANAX 75 (Kershaw Tilt)

Category 3

Vanax 35 (59.5)


Category 4

ZDP-189 (65)
CPM-154 (62)
ELMAX (60)
CTS-XHP (Military) (60+)
Super Blue (61.5)
CPM 3V (Big Chris)


Category 5

S30V (60)
VG-1
CPM - D2 (62)
N690
ATS-34 (59)
CPM-S35VN (59)
N680
ELMAX (58.5) Mule
D2 - Dozier K2

Category 6

INFI
154CM (61)
14C28N
CTS-B75P (Mule)

Category 7

VG-10
S30V (58.5)
AUS-8A
SG-2
5160 (55)
13C26N
X-15
440C (Big Chris)

Category 8

H-1
420 HC (Buck 110)

Category 9

CTS-BD1


Same method as above, but with a coarse edge, 400 grit congress Silicone carbide, more optimal edge finish for max edge retention to highlight the differences in the steels.

Steel - # of cuts - Model - HRC Hardness - Geometry Measurement -

CPM 10V - 2400 - Phil Wilson Coyote Meadow - 64.5 RC - .004" behind the edge
CPM S125V - 2340 - Phil Wilson Bow River - 62.5 RC - .006" behind the edge
CPM S125V - 1960 - Big Chris Custom - 63.5 RC - .006 behind the edge
MAXAMET - 1940 - Spyderco MT-24 - 67-68 RC - .018" Behind the edge
CPM 10V - 1180 - Darrin Sanders Custom - 63 RC - .012" behind the edge
S110V - 1120 - Manix 2 - 62 RC - Regrind to .005" behind the edge.
CPM 10V - 1100 - Spyderco/Farid K2 - 63 HRC - .020" behind the edge.
CPM S110V - 1080 - Spyderco Military - 63-64 RC - .020" Behind the edge
CPM 20CV - 960 - Michael Raymond Starlit - 62 RC - .007" - .008" behind the edge
Z-A11 - 880 - Darrion Sanders Custom - 62.5 RC - .020" behind the edge/.070" spine thickness.
K390 - 820 - Mule - 62-64 RC
CPM S35VN - 760 - Darrin Sanders Custom - 62 - 62.5 RC - .006" behind the edge
CPM 4V - 740 - Big Chris Custom - 63 RC - .008" - .010" Behind the edge.
CPM M4 - 740 - Phil Wilson Custom - 65 RC - .015" Behind the edge.
S110V - 720 - Manix 2 - 62 RC - .030" behind the edge
Cru-Wear - 700 - Phil Wilson Custom Bow River - 63 RC - .005" behind the edge.
S30V - 620 - Michael Raymond Estrella Custom - 60.5 - 61 RC - .006" behind the edge
S110V - 600 - Mule - 60 RC - .015" -.018" behind the edge.
S90V - 600 - Benchmade 940-1 - 59-61 RC - .018" Behind the edge.
S35VN - 560 - Fiddleback Forge Kephart - 60-61 RC - .015" Behind the Edge.
CTS-XHP - 540 - Cold Steel Ultimate Hunter - 63.5 RC - .020" behind the edge
CPM M4 - 500 - Spyderco Gayle Bradley - 62.5 - .022" behind the edge
S90V - 460 - Military - 60 RC
S90V/CPM 154 - Para 2 - 460 - ? RC
White Steel Laminate - 460 - HSC Custom - 63-64 HRC - .020" behind the edge
RWL-34 - Mule Team 22 - 440 - 61-62 RC - .020" Behind the edge
CTS 204P - 420 - Para 2
ZDP -189 - 420 - Endura 4 - 65 RC
Niolox - 420 - LX Blades - 59 - 59.5 RC - .006" behind the edge
BD1N - 420 - Phil Wilson - 60 HRC - .020" behind the edge
M390 - 400 - Benchmade 810-1401 Contego 60-62 RC
M390 - 380 - Military - 61 RC
ELMAX - 340 - ZT 0770CF - ? RC
ELMAX - 340 - Para 2 - ? RC
AEB-L - 340 - Tim Johnson Custom - 60 RC - .006" behind the edge
HAP-40 - 320 - Spyderco Endura - ? RC - .024" behind the edge
S35VN - 320 - Chris Reeve Sebenza 25 - ? RC - .021" behind the edge
CruForgeV - 300 - Bluntcut Custom - 62 HRC - .012" behind the edge
S30V - 300 - Military - 60 RC
PSF-27 - 280 - MT-19 - ? RC
Cru-Wear - 260 - Military - ? RC
CTS-XHP - 240 - Military - 60.5 RC
CTS-B75P - 240 - Mule
Sleipner - 240 - LionSteel PM2
Dozier D2 - 220 - Dozier K2
ELMAX - 220 - Mule - 58.5 RC
VG-10 - 160 - Stretch
AUS-8A - 160 - Recon 1
12c27 MOD - 120 - Opinel #8 - .012" behind the edge
XC90 - 80 - Opinel #8 - .012" behind the edge

 

So i ended up with.....

So Phil Wilson is definitely the man........Phil is not taking any orders and he is a year out.....[still can get his Spyderco edition] longer and skinnier than I wanted.
I just couldn't find anything I like in the limited offerings of S90V at a high Rockwell, that one Spyderco was close...but 6.3oz. The benchmade S90V Altitude is real skinny and no handle. My Manix2 in S90V would be a great blade but the little hole where the locking is with a small spring in there will get goo and junk....I might use it if I'm trying to go ultra light...

I wanted a fixed blade version, about 3 3/4" long blade, decent handle [my Steep country handle is a tad small and snags my nitrile gloves] and no more that 5 oz.

So many other good steel choices but I wanted it above 60 rockwell. i suspect my current S30V blades are a 58/59..[Rockwell is a log scale so a couple points matters]

CPM 4V fit the bill for hardness...as did M4....but not as corrosion resistant and many times I put my knife away bloody.

I ended up ordering this Bark River in Elmax [61Rockwell] $255 shipped [handle is a little brighter color] from Kinvesshipfree

 

$255 :mg: That thing better skin and quarter for me! Seriously I loose stuff too easily.

 

^ yeah, I get it. Nothing wrong with a good reasonably priced knife. This is a small incremental improvement [hopefully anyway]...and we all know how that goes. Its not going to be 4x better than that $80 D2 model.


I'm at the point in my life where I can splurge a little.

i looked at a bunch of models and different steels. So many good ones to choose from....can't really go wrong with a bunch of these. I wanted the S90V steel....but some of the mnfrs didn't temper as much as I wanted....keeping them 58-60....which means 58. CPM 4V would have worked but it does need a little TLC as its not a true stainless. Same with M4. Many of those carbon steels cut like crazy....as white shoes mentioned....but its hard to keep your knife spotless on backcountry hunts. That CPM S20cv would have been a good one ...no models I like.


CPM3V is great steel for toughness and good edge holding....I wanted killer edge holding.


The S35V is a small improvement over S30v...but its all about temper and hard to find in 61+ rockwell.

I would have done the M390....but nothing 61+ I liked.

Elmax is true stainless, and BRK runs it a little harder than others.

I really wanted 5 oz or less....and just under a 4" blade. It came down to the Classic hunter above....and the Gunny Hunter from BRK....but its a little heavier. Anyway, just dribbling on....pardon my ramblings

 

Nice purchase! The ergonomics, fit and finish on bark river knives is great. I'm curious to see how you like the elmax. I was hoping you were going to go for the s110v. I would really like to see how it performs on critters. Now go kill something, so we can see how brk elmax performs.

 

As an aside, I have an old SOG fixed blade knife in Timken's Duratech 20cv, which was later sold to crucible as s20cv. The blade shape is a flat, wide willow leaf shape, and really best for skinning, but the steel is amazing. If you can find a new old stock SOG team leader in duratech 20cv, it will last a lifetime. I dont know of any other knife in that original Timken high speed tool steel.

 

Sounds like a great steel. Those tool steels with a good Heat treat are amazing; D2, A2....still a great choice though you have to watch them from what I hear. My little pocket Dozier in D2 has never seen critter blood. The crazy thing about these super steels is they are really just trying to replicate the edge holding and cutting of the good carbon steels.

I had a good carbon steel knife many years ago, did 2 hogs one night with it without touchup but put it away bloody. It was a rusty pitted mess a week later....not a good idea for a hog hunter that hunted on rainy days.