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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It has been said by several archers that the short Axle to Axle bows do not hold as tight of groups on the field rounds and also has a lower X Count on the indoor rounds. If we compair the long 45" threw 47" axle to axle, bows to the shorter axle to axle bows 41" threw 43" what kind of results would we come up with. Is it possible that the shorter bows would shoot just as good. If that is true thin what about the short bows 37" threw 40" axle, What kind of efect does these short bows have on the long draw shooters, How will these short bows shoot on the indoor rounds vs the long axle to axle bows? We are only interest in the effect on target shooting only.
 

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Clarify your question.

You might want to consider that most people think of "short" ATA bows to be less than about 35-37 inches and "long" ATA bows to be anything more. The longer ones are only about 42-44 inches. Assuming you're talking about compounds, though.

I wasn't sure exactly what you were asking. It is, of course, possible to shoot well with short ATA bows but for the average shooter, longer is better.

Richard
 

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longer vs. shorter...

I agree that all things being equal, longer ATA is going to be more stable and thus provide a more accurate shot due to the balance of the bow itself. The longest ATA bow I have owned and shot extensively was only 41", but was VERY stable and extremely accurate. That being said, the Switchback is only 33" ATA and shoots as accurately and stable as any longer ATA bow I have shot. Probably more so! This is not meant as a plug or statement about Mathews, just a comparison with a shorter ATA bow that I can personaly attest to. I think it is possible for a shorter ATA bow to be extremely accurate, maybe even as much as a "long" ATA bow, depending on the shooter and the specific bow in question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
RCBrown said:
You might want to consider that most people think of "short" ATA bows to be less than about 35-37 inches and "long" ATA bows to be anything more. The longer ones are only about 42-44 inches. Assuming you're talking about compounds, though.

I wasn't sure exactly what you were asking. It is, of course, possible to shoot well with short ATA bows but for the average shooter, longer is better.

Richard
Hoyt pro tec Lxpro limbs are 47-1/4" a to a
Martin Razor X has a 45" a to a
This is the long axle to axle that I am talking about
 

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Ato A Comparison

I have several long A to A bows and one short bow with a 6" BH. I shot the shorter bow accurately enough to harvest many squirrels. At longer distances that maynot have been possible. But that is more likely due to the size of the target. My Hoyt Protec with the LX Pro Limbs is one of the longest I have with generous BH. (probably any thing over 7" is generous) ALl of this is certainly relative to the stature of the archer and the type of archery he is into. My wife can not shoot my Protec for it is just to big. I in fact prefer a Merlin Super Nova which is shorter that the Hoyt but it is lighter. I seem to tire easier with the Hoyt than others. (Maybe age is catching up :wink: ) Heavier bows are less susceptable to error robbing movements all humans tend to generate. Bernie Pellerite will tell you he used to ocmpete with a ten pound weight between the stabilizer and the riser. In theory as soon as you can get that arrow off the string the better. Long A to A Bows are most compatible to finger shooters because they have a lees acute string angle at full draw. Shorter bows will pinch your fingers and the nock. If you are 20' inthe air hugging a tree for dear life then a 40" A to A bow may not be a welcome friend. Same for shooting on your knees from a ground blind.

The thing I have learned so far is that the more comfortable the bow feels and fits the more accurate will be the shot. Never sure if you can tell that at a shop but you are certainly entitled to that kind of service if you are going to lay out a pile of cash for a full blown set up. If you go to a shop and they seem to want to push a 30" DL missile launcher at you and you are 6'9" and 290#, You may want to keep shopping. If you are 4'10" and they have a deal on a 44" A to A bow you also should keep shopping.

Fit and feel is everything in many sports and archery being a discipline, demands a system that promotes repeatability.
 

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short archer, long bow

I'm a 5'3" tall female with a 47.5" ATA bow. It's my first bow, and I feel very fortunate that a friend talked me into a long ATA. I like the stability of it. The weight is a bit of a challenge to my shoulder after I've shot for a couple of hours. But I'm building up to it.

I wouldn't mind a lighter-weight bow, but I don't think I'll ever give up the long ATA. It feels great once I pull to full draw. It's a feeling of the bow and myself being one unit. The bow moves as I move... rather than being independant of me.

I wonder if a shorter ATA allows for more movement of the bow alone?

All I know is I shoot suprisingly tight groups for a newbie.

Shannon
 

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90% shooter 10% equipment.

as it was explained in my archery session = guys who walk across a tight wire use long cross bars for better stability and balance. thus, archers who use longer bows & stabilizers will also find more stability and balance. for target shooting i would favor the 38-45" range.
 

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long and short

The ATA doesn't really matter...it's like shooting a long barrelled handgun vs a short barrelled one...both will be just as accurate in a shooting machine...one will be much more forgiving than the other. Both will perform as well as the person shooting it.
 

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Davik said:
The ATA doesn't really matter...it's like shooting a long barrelled handgun vs a short barrelled one...both will be just as accurate in a shooting machine...one will be much more forgiving than the other. Both will perform as well as the person shooting it.
I'm a bit confused by this. Doesn't "more forgiving" mean easier to aim consistently? Because the shooter's small movements don't translate into bow/barrel movement? And if that's the case, then a more-forgiving instrument is by definition more accurate, right? I realize that there are people who can shoot a very unforgiving bow and blow away someone shooting the world's most forgiving. But given similar skill levels, won't the forgiving bow perform better?

My BMW can wupp most Chevys in the curves. It has a a high-performance suspension. But if you put Jeff Gordon in the Chevy, me and my bimmer are gonna be eating his dust.

Shannon
 

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the question is "what is a long ATA bow?"


now for a 30" draw archer a long ATA bow would be 42"+ with a bh around 73/4 - 8. But what about an archer that has a 25" draw?


there is a very good thread on archery forum that covers this topic

http://www.archery-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=88890


Yes, it all works in proportion. Hence, someone like Zoe with a 25.5" draw can use a proportionaly lower brace height and axle-to-axle bow than someone like me at 29.5" and get the same tolerance to tuning and torque, together with the advantages of better performance than using the same sort of parameters as I would.

If we use things in proportion, we get:

If, for me at 29" draw and a single cam bow, I am aiming for about 37" ata and 8" brace height:
Draw ata brace
30 38 8.3
29 37 8
28 36 7.7
27 34 7.4
26 33 7.2
25 32 6.9

If, for me at 29" draw and a twin cam or hybrid cam bow, I am aiming for about 41" ata and 8" brace height:

Draw ata brace
30 42 8.3
29 41 8
28 40 7.7
27 38 7.4
26 37 7.2
25 35 6.9
 

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Nature seems to be a fair designer. People with long draw lengths enjoyed the advantage of more arrow velocity over those with short DL's. However, the shorter DL folks get their arrow off the string sooner. A machine can not simulate these conditions since it would shoot either accurately. Recurve target archers have a little better handle on bow geometry as a function of stressing the equipment and archer fit . The element of Brace Height also can not be ignored in the forgiveness equation. Is a 31" A to A VLT style riser bow with an 8" BH just as or more forgiving as a longer A to A bow? Many feel speed makes all the difference in the world for some types of archery. No free lunch there either because the rocket launchers also can translate human errors at the target because the arrow is getting there in a hurry with less flight time to correct or stabilize. 3D archers enjoy the flat trajectory edge in unknow distance shooting. Indoor archers actually benefit by large slower arrows because 20 yards(18m) shooting is challenging since it is such a short distance as to not allow a lot of flight stabilization time. So a little less speed correlates to flight time and to a degree the longer it flies the more the arrow tends to stabilize.

Does that mean that fast bows with huge A to A and 9" brace heights are more forgiving? Boy that is a good question as it begs the question,"what modern innovations to compound bows have made them more accurate and forgiving than the early bowsof similar geometry?" Positive draw stop, level nock travel, cam timing, newer string material, D-loops, mechanical releases, elimination of archer's paradox may all be used to argue the forgiveness quotient. Doesn't alter the perfect scores shot with older equipment by talented archers. Arrows are sometimes overlooked as a major contributor to forgiving setups. Bob Ragsdale continually argures that all abow does is determine the speed of the arrow and archers need to strive for a good basic alignment then focus more on the arrow spine and their duplicability of the shot process.

If we aren't pushing the envelope then we are causing drag!
 

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There is no inherent different in accuracy between the longest and shortest ATA compound bows. In a shooting machine without human input, either will shoot the same accuracy.

All the bow can do is to propel the arrow and without variable outside influence, the bow will propel the arrow the same every time.

The longest ATA compound bow I have ever shot was 56 inches and the shortest is 40 inches.

The issue is the fit of the bowstring at full draw to the shooter's face. Some archers can shoot effectively without touching the string to their nose but this is definitely the minority of all archers.

From long to short as the ATA becomes shorter the length of draw behind the vertical drop from the nose touch point becomes longer.

To compensate, the archer must shorten the trigger loop, string loop, or trigger housing snout in order to keep his drawarm in a position where correct tension can be maintained. In other words, if the drawarm is extended too far around behind the head, consistent shot execution is difficult.

Another way to compensate is to lower the peep which moves the draw hand and arm forward but also higher on the side of the face. Many archers have discovered this as a means to maintain correct back tension with shorter bows, but then they have difficulty reaching super long distances such as required for FITA, because the peep is down close to the arrow.

It all boils down the the string angle and face fit that the archer is most comfortable with.

This past spring I got out one of my old Bear TD recurve bows at 70 inch length. Now these really have a steep string angle and I learned to shoot a trigger (rope spike) with this bow.

I have no idea how I ever shot it then. To get the string to fit my nose and chin, I had to lean my head back so far that if I were shooting it in the rain, I would drown.
 
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