I am traditional, especially so with longbows. Why hunt with aluminum or even Carbon arrows (please) when using a long bow. That is tantamount to using fake black powder and bullets in a flintlock ... what is the point. If you want to go modern use a compound is my view ... your view?
H Hill
To each his own but I shoot wood out of my longbows and real Goex black powder out of my flintlocks.
Darren
Darren
I can't even get goex around here. Retailers aren't willing to pay the extra licensing and insurance cost, but mostly insurance.
Want to shoot for a 1000 bucks my longbow and carbon against your setup? I played and my woods just don't do what carbons will.
Bowmania
Bowmania
I shoot carbon or aluminum for economy, I suppose.
A set of machine-matched wooden shafts is half the cost of aluminum or carbon. After stains, paints, lacquer, nocks, etc. you're only saving about 25% if that. They're still less durable and less consistent. Matched sets are often just as expensive as modern shaft materials. Let's say you go the other way, then. Buying plain dowels or the materials to make your own dowels/shafts will save you a lot of money, but not time. The time invested is often far more time than you would spend working to just buy a set of modern shafts.
I shoot a longbow because I love the utter simplicity of it, not to reenact another time. I trade in a little precision and ease compared to a compound for a bow that not only requires less maintenance, but is also significantly cheaper to buy and maintain. It's not the same with wood arrows, though. For me, I feel I wind up paying more for wood one way or another. I shot them for years, and I've tried to go back. I've tried to find a good balance, but it doesn't work out the way I'd like. I wind up paying more for them, be it in money or in significant amounts of time. Even then, where's the limit? Why not build a selfbow, wooden arrows, and knapped heads? I've gone that route too. It's a lot of fun but takes even more time, which I don't have as much of anymore. We all have a balance between technology and tradition that works for us.
A set of machine-matched wooden shafts is half the cost of aluminum or carbon. After stains, paints, lacquer, nocks, etc. you're only saving about 25% if that. They're still less durable and less consistent. Matched sets are often just as expensive as modern shaft materials. Let's say you go the other way, then. Buying plain dowels or the materials to make your own dowels/shafts will save you a lot of money, but not time. The time invested is often far more time than you would spend working to just buy a set of modern shafts.
I shoot a longbow because I love the utter simplicity of it, not to reenact another time. I trade in a little precision and ease compared to a compound for a bow that not only requires less maintenance, but is also significantly cheaper to buy and maintain. It's not the same with wood arrows, though. For me, I feel I wind up paying more for wood one way or another. I shot them for years, and I've tried to go back. I've tried to find a good balance, but it doesn't work out the way I'd like. I wind up paying more for them, be it in money or in significant amounts of time. Even then, where's the limit? Why not build a selfbow, wooden arrows, and knapped heads? I've gone that route too. It's a lot of fun but takes even more time, which I don't have as much of anymore. We all have a balance between technology and tradition that works for us.
I shoot wood and carbon.
Wood for roving,small game, and competitions.
Carbon for big game, roving and small game.
Some times I actually do feel like shooting a compound an when this feeling happens, I do shoot my compound.
The same applies to my recurve.
I shoot what and how I feel, and nobody gets to telling me otherwise.
In fact, I'm very traditional about doing what I damn well feel like.
John.
Wood for roving,small game, and competitions.
Carbon for big game, roving and small game.
Some times I actually do feel like shooting a compound an when this feeling happens, I do shoot my compound.
The same applies to my recurve.
I shoot what and how I feel, and nobody gets to telling me otherwise.
In fact, I'm very traditional about doing what I damn well feel like.
John.
Kegan -
That was one of the best answers I've ever heard, unfortunately, it was to a question that was little more than a thinly veiled trolling attempt.
Viper1 out.
That was one of the best answers I've ever heard, unfortunately, it was to a question that was little more than a thinly veiled trolling attempt.
Viper1 out.
I understand your sentiment but, do you wear a lion cloth and leggings while you're shooting? Oh and those should be brain tanned leggings while we're at it. Don't forget when it's cold to take a buffalo robe along. I could go on and on here but I think I've made my point. It all comes down to what you want to do. I hunt with trad equipment because it fits my style of hunting better than anything else. My goal is to get game in as close as possible. Trad equipment has less FUBAR potential than compounds with all the gadgets. But I own a compound because I love the speed and precision.
I'll hunt bear, elk, whitetail, mulies, antelope, geese, and rabbits this year with a longbow made by a good friend. As I let an aluminum arrow with it's steel broadhead slip from my fingers, I'll try to make my aim as true as I am capable. And when I send him a picture of whatever trophy I claim and I rave about the bow he'll be pleased that the bow served me well. I'll be proud to have used something a friend made to create another good memory for both of us. The last question will be "What kinda arrow did you use?"
I'll hunt bear, elk, whitetail, mulies, antelope, geese, and rabbits this year with a longbow made by a good friend. As I let an aluminum arrow with it's steel broadhead slip from my fingers, I'll try to make my aim as true as I am capable. And when I send him a picture of whatever trophy I claim and I rave about the bow he'll be pleased that the bow served me well. I'll be proud to have used something a friend made to create another good memory for both of us. The last question will be "What kinda arrow did you use?"
Why am I reminded of the countless times I've read of folks posting about "How Trad They Are" using Tapatalk from their IPhone 6?
It's the internet folks...even "The Space Age" is History! LOL!
Which in a way?...makes the space shuttle "Trad" :laugh:
It's the internet folks...even "The Space Age" is History! LOL!
Which in a way?...makes the space shuttle "Trad" :laugh:
Guys -
Look, making wood arrows can be a hobby unto itself, and there's nothing wrong with that, in fact I can see it being kind cool.
Still I think Kegan pretty much summed it up.
Some of us are into the "trad experience", real or imagined, and some of us would rather be shooting and not worry about the equipment (or cost).
I think the OP's wording pretty much told us what we needed to know.
Viper1 out.
Look, making wood arrows can be a hobby unto itself, and there's nothing wrong with that, in fact I can see it being kind cool.
Still I think Kegan pretty much summed it up.
Some of us are into the "trad experience", real or imagined, and some of us would rather be shooting and not worry about the equipment (or cost).
I think the OP's wording pretty much told us what we needed to know.
Viper1 out.
If I could afford and was strong enough for a carbon fibre longbow or recurve, I would get it in a heartbeat.
I loves me woodies, and they are required for some of the events I have competed in. That makes skill in the ancient art of arrow making part of the challenge. I like that, so I can try to make better arrows than the other fellows. And I enjoy the connection with the ancient tradition.
On the other hand, I moved to Colorado for several years. I shot mostly at the many fine field ranges on the Air Force Academy grounds in Colorado Springs, sometimes alongside an Olympic coach and his pupils. But they don't call those mountains the Rockies for nothing. On the field courses a miss often meant destroying one of my beloved woodies. So I made up some aluminum arrows. Aluminum shafting is fairly similar to wooden shafting so this was not difficult. By adjusting point weight and shaft length I was able to get them to fly on the same trajectory out to at least 60 yards. Then I could switch back and forth with no change in sight picture. I used aluminums for routine practice and saved my match woodies for special occasions, such as championship events or a big hunt.
I got too cold in Colorado so I am back in sunny California and I can use my pretty good grade woodies without too much risk. But I still use my aluminums for long range practice, where I have been known to sometimes miss the target butts.
Aluminum shafts inexpensive and more consistent and accurate than all but the most costly carbons and easy to tune to length with simple hand tools. The weigh about the same as cedar shafts of the same spine so matching is pretty easy. I have no objection to using carbons in my target recurves but carbon shafts are so light that I need to add a lot of point weight to get them to fly at the trajectory my eye is used to. So I prefer aluminum in recurves. I do suggest carbons for my pupils with light draw weights and short draw lengths, so they can get adequate arrow speed. - lbg
On the other hand, I moved to Colorado for several years. I shot mostly at the many fine field ranges on the Air Force Academy grounds in Colorado Springs, sometimes alongside an Olympic coach and his pupils. But they don't call those mountains the Rockies for nothing. On the field courses a miss often meant destroying one of my beloved woodies. So I made up some aluminum arrows. Aluminum shafting is fairly similar to wooden shafting so this was not difficult. By adjusting point weight and shaft length I was able to get them to fly on the same trajectory out to at least 60 yards. Then I could switch back and forth with no change in sight picture. I used aluminums for routine practice and saved my match woodies for special occasions, such as championship events or a big hunt.
I got too cold in Colorado so I am back in sunny California and I can use my pretty good grade woodies without too much risk. But I still use my aluminums for long range practice, where I have been known to sometimes miss the target butts.
Aluminum shafts inexpensive and more consistent and accurate than all but the most costly carbons and easy to tune to length with simple hand tools. The weigh about the same as cedar shafts of the same spine so matching is pretty easy. I have no objection to using carbons in my target recurves but carbon shafts are so light that I need to add a lot of point weight to get them to fly at the trajectory my eye is used to. So I prefer aluminum in recurves. I do suggest carbons for my pupils with light draw weights and short draw lengths, so they can get adequate arrow speed. - lbg
I'm patiently waiting for my pre finished arrows from 3 rivers to get here. I have decided to hunt with trad only this yr and figured wood was a perfect choice. I use aluminum with all my bows usually but with a 20 yard limit, ill be ok with wood I figure
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Ok, I usually avoid these things for good reason but I'm in sort of a sh***y mood so...
First, to pose this sort of question is, as Viper stated, a purely troll move so grow up and let the adults talk.
Second, if it matters to you that much, you're an idiot.
Third, the fact that you're using a computer or phone or tablet to post this drivel makes you a hypocrite.
Ps-Kegan makes a damn fine longbow, regardless of what kind of arrows you shoot out of it.
First, to pose this sort of question is, as Viper stated, a purely troll move so grow up and let the adults talk.
Second, if it matters to you that much, you're an idiot.
Third, the fact that you're using a computer or phone or tablet to post this drivel makes you a hypocrite.
Ps-Kegan makes a damn fine longbow, regardless of what kind of arrows you shoot out of it.
I’m a recurve shooter but I’ll tell you why I chose carbon over wood as it was a hard choice main reason is durability carbon will last forver even if it gets scraped or damaged as long as it doesn’t break it’s still good also I know areas of high moisture or rain wood arrows swell and they can rot and fly inaccurate a wood arrow is gonna have allot more go wrong with it then a carbon just get carbon wood grain you’ll have a set of arrows that are stronger and will last forever
Since you asked :wink: I’m super traditional, just like Fred Bear. As such I shoot a super recurve ILF with micro diameter carbons.
When I shoot my 3 piece (or) 2 piece TD longbows (or like Howard Hill use ILF longbow limbs), I use traditional carbon arrows. Just like they did in the 50’s. Also just like in olden times I use 3 3” dyed feathers. Finally, like any traditionalist I use an elevated rest.
I will on occasion make wooden arrows. I do so for the same reason I tie my own flys, it’s a hobby in the winter. In the end I pay more for shafts that won’t last as long or perform like carbons do. Is it fun to take an animal with arrows I made? Sure. Other than that , they smell good when I break them.
When I shoot my 3 piece (or) 2 piece TD longbows (or like Howard Hill use ILF longbow limbs), I use traditional carbon arrows. Just like they did in the 50’s. Also just like in olden times I use 3 3” dyed feathers. Finally, like any traditionalist I use an elevated rest.
I will on occasion make wooden arrows. I do so for the same reason I tie my own flys, it’s a hobby in the winter. In the end I pay more for shafts that won’t last as long or perform like carbons do. Is it fun to take an animal with arrows I made? Sure. Other than that , they smell good when I break them.
I appreciate the art of traditional wood shaft arrows making.
However that won't stop me using aluminum shafts or feel bad about it.
Being trad police is stupid, as ur trad bow uses modern adhesive, glass or vanish....Not to mention ur string, even in Dacron is not historically traditional.
However that won't stop me using aluminum shafts or feel bad about it.
Being trad police is stupid, as ur trad bow uses modern adhesive, glass or vanish....Not to mention ur string, even in Dacron is not historically traditional.
Yes this was started as a trolling thread, but the subject can generate good discussion.
Like for example I myself feel that LB "should" shoot woodies. I have a number of reasons, but they are all purely subjective, and very biased.
Now as you know NFAA killed their LB class. Here in CA though we kept it. As part of keeping it though, it was split, somewhat like how IBO does it. We have a LB class for woodies and one for synthetics now. This was what the person responsible for us keeping LB came up with. When I was asked about I was honest with him. I told him I didn't like it. BUT it would stupid of me to throw a big fat fit over it. When we look at it as a matter of keeping LB AND even hopefully increasing participation, then go for it.
I may have my own ridiculous overly romantic ideals about what shooting a LB should be all about. So what? That doesn't mean I have to be an idiot about it and attempt to control and manipulate other people. Whenever anybody is interested, I just tell them what I think is "right" for LB and why I have these feelings about it.
Notice though that the whole thing with NFAA and us keeping LB was about equipment rules for an archery organization. If we're going to compete, then all the competitors have to be on the same page. Beyond that though, really, shoot whatever you want. It doesn't affect me!
Also, if it is about LB competition, there may not be many but there are tournaments all over the country that stipulate LB must shoot woodies. You can usually hit one or two of those a year. I like those shoots. And if it really bothers you, and you don't have access to one, organize such a tournament yourself.
Like for example I myself feel that LB "should" shoot woodies. I have a number of reasons, but they are all purely subjective, and very biased.
Now as you know NFAA killed their LB class. Here in CA though we kept it. As part of keeping it though, it was split, somewhat like how IBO does it. We have a LB class for woodies and one for synthetics now. This was what the person responsible for us keeping LB came up with. When I was asked about I was honest with him. I told him I didn't like it. BUT it would stupid of me to throw a big fat fit over it. When we look at it as a matter of keeping LB AND even hopefully increasing participation, then go for it.
I may have my own ridiculous overly romantic ideals about what shooting a LB should be all about. So what? That doesn't mean I have to be an idiot about it and attempt to control and manipulate other people. Whenever anybody is interested, I just tell them what I think is "right" for LB and why I have these feelings about it.
Notice though that the whole thing with NFAA and us keeping LB was about equipment rules for an archery organization. If we're going to compete, then all the competitors have to be on the same page. Beyond that though, really, shoot whatever you want. It doesn't affect me!
Also, if it is about LB competition, there may not be many but there are tournaments all over the country that stipulate LB must shoot woodies. You can usually hit one or two of those a year. I like those shoots. And if it really bothers you, and you don't have access to one, organize such a tournament yourself.
I shoot woodies out of my Longbow & since a NFAA member complied with the rules. Now, no longer required to shoot woodies but still do. I do have some Aluminums too but woodies majority of time.. Hunting is woodies as I see little or no difference in the yardages I shoot hunting.
As a 59 year old?...as a 7 year old boy the only option available too me was Cedar arrows from Two Guys Dept store sporting goods dept....$.25 cents ea. or 5 for $1...a months allowance bought me 5 and I would spend a good hour or so picking out the 5 straightest.
I shot wood arrows but knew nothing of them but do recall being ecstatic with the flight and performance of my first set of aluminum arrows about 14 years later.
CF shafting was available for a good decade or so before I was willing to pay 1 1/2 times as much to abandon my beloved Easton X7's and try my first set of ACC's...(which I hated and went back too my X7's)
It's only been the last 7 years of my life that I revisited wood arrow shafting and gleaned much from forums just like this one where I learned that wood arrows "Can Be" made to be just as accurate and consistent (within reason) as any other shafting material "IF" the effort is made to be "Consistently Precise" when making said wood arrows.
I think what turns a lot of archers off too wood arrows is the fact that every set of commercial grade wood arrows I've encountered seemed to have 3-4 (out of the dozen) that just didn't shoot with the rest and until those bad apples are identified and either corrected or culled out of the quiver?....the archer is always going to be left disappointed with their dozen new wood arrows. (I know I was and time after time)
In disgust I wrote wood arrows completely off my menu but then a problem arose...I purchased a Big Jim Thunderchild and wanted to shoot Longbow Class at TBOF where Longbows are required to shoot wood arrows and that's when I got my first wood shafts that were worth a flip...(2) DZ P.O.C. Parallel shafts from RMS Gear and all spined within +/-1# and they were the first wood shafts that exhibited too me that wood shafting "Can Be" all the arrow any other sort of shafting material can make.
I learned the importance of checking for proper moisture content before sealing your arrows.
I learned the importance of spine/weight matched shafting.
I learned the importance of maintaining nock and point taper concentricity unto the shaft and of course?...straight shafts and if not?...how to straighten them.
I working a dozen hard rock maples from Kevin Forrester now for my Border Hawk R/D Hybrid...which I hoping tom shoot Longbow class with at TBOF's 2018 Fall Rendezvous.
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here's the important part...
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I shot wood arrows but knew nothing of them but do recall being ecstatic with the flight and performance of my first set of aluminum arrows about 14 years later.
CF shafting was available for a good decade or so before I was willing to pay 1 1/2 times as much to abandon my beloved Easton X7's and try my first set of ACC's...(which I hated and went back too my X7's)
It's only been the last 7 years of my life that I revisited wood arrow shafting and gleaned much from forums just like this one where I learned that wood arrows "Can Be" made to be just as accurate and consistent (within reason) as any other shafting material "IF" the effort is made to be "Consistently Precise" when making said wood arrows.
I think what turns a lot of archers off too wood arrows is the fact that every set of commercial grade wood arrows I've encountered seemed to have 3-4 (out of the dozen) that just didn't shoot with the rest and until those bad apples are identified and either corrected or culled out of the quiver?....the archer is always going to be left disappointed with their dozen new wood arrows. (I know I was and time after time)
In disgust I wrote wood arrows completely off my menu but then a problem arose...I purchased a Big Jim Thunderchild and wanted to shoot Longbow Class at TBOF where Longbows are required to shoot wood arrows and that's when I got my first wood shafts that were worth a flip...(2) DZ P.O.C. Parallel shafts from RMS Gear and all spined within +/-1# and they were the first wood shafts that exhibited too me that wood shafting "Can Be" all the arrow any other sort of shafting material can make.
I learned the importance of checking for proper moisture content before sealing your arrows.
I learned the importance of spine/weight matched shafting.
I learned the importance of maintaining nock and point taper concentricity unto the shaft and of course?...straight shafts and if not?...how to straighten them.
I working a dozen hard rock maples from Kevin Forrester now for my Border Hawk R/D Hybrid...which I hoping tom shoot Longbow class with at TBOF's 2018 Fall Rendezvous.
here's the important part...
I’ve always shot carbons coming from a compound bow back ground ( thanks again Chuck Adams) but can I ask a question, to those whom say you as well to shoot a compound bow if you shoot carbons.
I find most compounds to be useless to me, nowadays. As I shoot fingers, and bows are getting shorter and shorter. Now there isn’t any question that carbon arrows are the best. Period!
But what my question is, why if you shoot steel broadheahds are you allowed to judge. Who’s really “Traditional” flint tipped reeds with bundle bows, and cat gut strings. Why judge who’s not Trad if you aren’t really either. I want sharp steel and straight shafts. But I believe fingers and instinctive, is faster aiming, faster reloads from a back quiver, I can change a string in about 20 seconds. I could go on and on. But I’m going to be judged because someone who probably didn’t make there bow, admits they ordered the wood shafting, probably shoots swickeys Eskimo heads, wants to claim that there in the “Trad” community and anyone with carbon arrows should be kicked out. Just a humble hunters thoughts.
I find most compounds to be useless to me, nowadays. As I shoot fingers, and bows are getting shorter and shorter. Now there isn’t any question that carbon arrows are the best. Period!
But what my question is, why if you shoot steel broadheahds are you allowed to judge. Who’s really “Traditional” flint tipped reeds with bundle bows, and cat gut strings. Why judge who’s not Trad if you aren’t really either. I want sharp steel and straight shafts. But I believe fingers and instinctive, is faster aiming, faster reloads from a back quiver, I can change a string in about 20 seconds. I could go on and on. But I’m going to be judged because someone who probably didn’t make there bow, admits they ordered the wood shafting, probably shoots swickeys Eskimo heads, wants to claim that there in the “Trad” community and anyone with carbon arrows should be kicked out. Just a humble hunters thoughts.
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