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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I have been trying to set up my own arrows for my bow. I am playing around with Archers Advantage and had someone run the info through pinwheel in the past. I built the arrow to the specs that I thought were accurate, but paper tuning is telling me my shafts are weak. I am trying to get FOC in the 11-15% range and bare shaft paper tune well. I feel I have been overthinking it and want to get some advice on what might be good next steps to solve and build it properly. I shot the same arrow with 3 Blazer Vanes and the paper tune showed it flying properly, what am I missing?

Specs
2016 Elite Synergy
30" Draw
60 lb limbs (I don't actually know what they are set - considering going to pro shop to have draw weight measured)

Arrows
Victory Vforce Gamer 350
Cut to 27.75"
50 grain insert
100 grain field point

I selected Elite Synergy on the program and it shows IBO speed of 301. When using AA online I see how much the shaft selector can vary based on draw weight and arrow speed. I don't have exact numbers on those, which is why I was going to stop at archery shop and shoot through chronograph and check draw weight. Or since my paper tune is showing weak shaft, do I just start playing with other variables? Decrease point weight, adjust arrow length, or go to stiffer arrow (likely the Gold Tip Hunter XT 300).

Thanks for any advice!
 

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1. how can your draw length be 30" but your arrows cut to 27 3/4"?
2. the nock low is what I'd start with. straighten that up and the nock left may mostly correct


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Agree with question above, flirting with disaster at that arrow length for hunting. That aside the arrow programs are great for calculating dynamic spine reactions but are only as accurate as the parameters input I.e. correct draw weight. They do not list an arrow that will shoot bullet holes instantly. Still have to tune the bow. Not surprised with difference between blazer and bare. Bare shafts tell you just as much about form as arrow flight and blazers have a lot of correction. Definitely fix vertical then horizontal. One other warning arrow building is very deep hole with no end, won’t take long before you’re signing up for arrow addicts anonymous.
 

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I would try a stiffer spine. Might have to play with point weight on a 300 spine again but like the fella in the previous comment said “Arrow building is a very deep hole with no end”
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would try a stiffer spine. Might have to play with point weight on a 300 spine again but like the fella in the previous comment said “Arrow building is a very deep hole with no end”
Yea this is the route I was leaning towards. I'm just trying to become familiar enough to build my own arrows so I can play with length, insert/tip weight and put my own arrow wraps on. Nothing too crazy.
 

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Yea this is the route I was leaning towards. I'm just trying to become familiar enough to build my own arrows so I can play with length, insert/tip weight and put my own arrow wraps on. Nothing too crazy.
The other thing is, bareshaft out of a compound has always been challenging for me. Right now I'm fighting with my V3, well should say I've given up. Between 70-75lbs, Ive tried everything from goldtip 300 to sirius vulcan 200, all combinations of point weight from 100-250, rest in-out adjustments, iphone slow-mo video of my shot. Get nothing but a 1.5-2" nock right tear no matter what. BUT I'm shooting bullet holes with my fletched GT pierce platinum 250's and stacking arrows at 30yds? So, after 35 years of doing this, I've learned to walk away from the rabbit hole, and go hunting!


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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The other thing is, bareshaft out of a compound has always been challenging for me. Right now I'm fighting with my V3, well should say I've given up. Between 70-75lbs, Ive tried everything from goldtip 300 to sirius vulcan 200, all combinations of point weight from 100-250, rest in-out adjustments, iphone slow-mo video of my shot. Get nothing but a 1.5-2" nock right tear no matter what. BUT I'm shooting bullet holes with my fletched GT pierce platinum 250's and stacking arrows at 30yds? So, after 35 years of doing this, I've learned to walk away from the rabbit hole, and go hunting!


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Well that's awesome then! I'm just trying to make sure i'm not messing anything up. This is a new bow setup for me so I just started sighting it in and getting arrows setup. Been with the crossbow for years but want to get back to the vertical bow when in treestand (vs crossbow I prefer in the blind). If my arrows are flying real well with fletching, do I even bother messing with it?

The rabbit hole is real and has been slowing down with all the loads of information out there!
 

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Well that's awesome then! I'm just trying to make sure i'm not messing anything up. This is a new bow setup for me so I just started sighting it in and getting arrows setup. Been with the crossbow for years but want to get back to the vertical bow when in treestand (vs crossbow I prefer in the blind). If my arrows are flying real well with fletching, do I even bother messing with it?

The rabbit hole is real and has been slowing down with all the loads of information out there!
Yes sir the other guy had the Quote of the day with "Rabbit Hole" statement!

As much as I believe in the principle of bare shaft tuning, and I do try on all my bows, it seems to really "work" on my longbows but it's inconsistent on my compounds. I mean how can a 200 shaft with 100 grain point hit about the same nock-right as a 250 with a 250gr point? Makes no sense. As long as you're within spec range on your bow/arrow combo, you've got good fletched flight, AND you can stack arrows accurately... I'm walking away!


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It all comes down to what you need as an individual. If you need as many fps as possible, go stiffer shaft and pro shop and chronograph and all that. If you need a bow that shoots arrows perfectly that you yourself built to spec, start backing off draw weight 1/2 limb bolt turn (top and bottom) at a time. That bow will shoot those arrows, you just have to find the magic spot on the draw weight. My bows are about 3lbs per handle turn, so 1/2 limb bolt turn is 1.5lbs. I tuned all of them specifically to a set of arrows, and I figured out through trial and error what worked for each setup. Also, I prefer to check the alignment of a 3 yard bareshaft vs paper tuning. Paper just tells you how much the shaft was flexing as it went through the paper, a 3 yard bareshaft tells you how straight it flew through impact and penetration. Once you start getting close to proper poundage, nock tune to get it perfect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It all comes down to what you need as an individual. If you need as many fps as possible, go stiffer shaft and pro shop and chronograph and all that. If you need a bow that shoots arrows perfectly that you yourself built to spec, start backing off draw weight 1/2 limb bolt turn (top and bottom) at a time. That bow will shoot those arrows, you just have to find the magic spot on the draw weight. My bows are about 3lbs per handle turn, so 1/2 limb bolt turn is 1.5lbs. I tuned all of them specifically to a set of arrows, and I figured out through trial and error what worked for each setup. Also, I prefer to check the alignment of a 3 yard bareshaft vs paper tuning. Paper just tells you how much the shaft was flexing as it went through the paper, a 3 yard bareshaft tells you how straight it flew through impact and penetration. Once you start getting close to proper poundage, nock tune to get it perfect.
Ahh, thanks! I like that idea with draw weight. I prefer a heavier setup for more penetration and knock down power. I don't care as much about speed - just want a well shooting arrow with good penetration.
 

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First thing with bareshaft tuning, everything has to be perfect. Especially form wise. Secondly according to pinwheel you’re running slightly stiff actually. Now how a bow handles an arrow different story. Look at center shot first off. I would also look at trying to nock tune your bareshaft. Fletchings can disguise a lot of problems and imperfections. Like I said everything needs to be perfect for bareshaft tuning. Good luck.
 

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As stated above, back down your poundage 1/4 turn at time and see if the tear gets better. Cheaper than buying new stiffer arrows. If the left tear goes away then you know that you were underspined, and then you can buy stiffer arrows if you want to go back to full poundage.
 

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1. how can your draw length be 30" but your arrows cut to 27 3/4"?
2. the nock low is what I'd start with. straighten that up and the nock left may mostly correct


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I have the same sort of thing. My draw is set to 30, but my rest sits behind my riser and sometimes the arrow length is measured carbon to carbon so with insert and tip and nock, "28 inch" arrows give me a little wiggle room.
 

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those arrows are plenty stiff, form and center shot are probably not perfect.
 

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The other thing is, bareshaft out of a compound has always been challenging for me. Right now I'm fighting with my V3, well should say I've given up. Between 70-75lbs, Ive tried everything from goldtip 300 to sirius vulcan 200, all combinations of point weight from 100-250, rest in-out adjustments, iphone slow-mo video of my shot. Get nothing but a 1.5-2" nock right tear no matter what. BUT I'm shooting bullet holes with my fletched GT pierce platinum 250's and stacking arrows at 30yds? So, after 35 years of doing this, I've learned to walk away from the rabbit hole, and go hunting!


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are you shimming the cams with the top hat system? that should be the go to, not changing arrows or moving your rest outside of center shot.
 

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I'm no trying to be a jerk at all but it's almost unbelievable that you could be THAT CLOSE on your fletched shaft and THAT BAD on your bareshaft. I gotta say my guess is that a lot of that is on you! I'd check my grip, you gotta be torquing that riser.
 

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I'm no trying to be a jerk at all but it's almost unbelievable that you could be THAT CLOSE on your fletched shaft and THAT BAD on your bareshaft. I gotta say my guess is that a lot of that is on you! I'd check my grip, you gotta be torquing that riser.
Yep I got it down to about 1-1.25" tail right at about 9-10 yards with the 250 and a 150gr head I think. Everything else was worse, out to 2"
I just thought about those tophats myself yesterday, will play with it on the weekend. I just can't believe moving the rest out didn't fix it?
Definitely could be me too, I try to be very consistent (and appear to be on video) but, definitely could be a torque issue in there.


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How far away are you when shooting through paper? If you're more than a few feet, then your fletched arrow will always look like a bullet hole.
 
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