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Got rid of my hooter shooter 3 years ago when I switched to traditional bows completely. I sold it for two reasons……..1. I thought that I would have no use for it anymore. 2. I know that I can build a better machine.

Back to the present……Although I have no intentions of going back to a wheel bow, I still set up compounds for friends, family, etc., and I have decided that a combination draw board/shooting machine can help me with my own bows.

I have the plans finished for my new machine, but I do need help in one area. It is easy to make a machine fire a compound bow, but to mimic a split finger or 3 under release is a different story. I am looking for suggestions on how to modify a mechanical release to replicate a traditional style launch.

Any idea`s?????
 

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You would need a robotic hand to accurately mimic a human fingered release / initiation of paradox. Whether or not that's actually necessary is debatable - depends on what you are trying to test. Fortunately, IMHO that's not the best use for a shooting machine with stickbows.

BTW - that initiation of paradox has an effect on a limb's torsional stability, if that's what you're looking for, yeah, it would be some thing that can simulate string roll around the fingers.

At near elite levels of shooting, equipment plays a greater role in accuracy than it does at mere human levels. Olympic level shooters are trying for tight groups at 70M and 90M for FITA (until they change that latter). At that level, even high end A/C arrows are not created equal. Most Oly shooters will bare shaft at distance to cull out arrows that don't fly with the flock. Some of us less elite types, might benefit by using a shooting machine to test arrows, and even bow stability over time.

Sorry if that didn't help - just thinking out loud.

You might want to contact Sid Border/Borderbows, he's very involved with this type of stuff and very approachable.

Viper1 out.
 

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Viper1, by main use for this machine on the traditional end will be for checking draw length and draw weight at a certain draw length, but since I will build it to fire arrows out of a wheel bow, I might as well give it a go with the stickbows. I think that a firm rubber coating on a single jaw breakaway release will simulate rolling off a finger tab close enough to give me solid feedback on bow/arrow combinations.

I have a buddy and top wheel bow shooter thinking on this one for me. If the guy that makes Carter releases can`t figure it out, then I may be in trouble. :lol:
 

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Seriously doubt you'll get an accurate representation of a finger release, the dynamics are a little more complicated than that, especially compared to a trigger release. The real question is what you are trying to find out or "see" happen, and a perfect finger representation may not be necessary.

Viper1 out.
 

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That will be a tough one...and honestly, I can't see it solving any problems. The point behind the Hooter Shooter is to remove inconsistency. Finger releases vary from plain awful to amazingly good. Even if you can mimic a finger release, it would only mimic one. Or am I missing the point?


I'd love to have a shooting machine anyway, just to play with. I could see for myself what kind of speed differences you get with different strings, see if there's really any noticeable draw weight variances at full draw, watch what happens when you pull a [email protected] bow to only 24 inches...it would be tons of fun. I know folks who have already done this, but it would be interesting to do it myself, just for further verification.
 

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Rather than have a jaw that simply lets go of the string, I wonder if you could fabricate a release mechanism where the string has to roll around a curved section to mimic rolling off the fingers? Kind of like adding a curved ramp made of wood, JB Weld, aluminum, etc. just in front of the release jaws so the string has to roll off and around it to induce some manner of paradox. You could even glue on a bit of leather to further simulate a tab or glove.
 

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I was thinking a strap style release would work, with a strap of leather held back with side pressure. Maybe back up the "tab" with some 1/2" rubber to account for the fingers.

-Grant
 

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That will be a tough one...and honestly, I can't see it solving any problems. The point behind the Hooter Shooter is to remove inconsistency. Finger releases vary from plain awful to amazingly good. Even if you can mimic a finger release, it would only mimic one. Or am I missing the point?I may be barking up the wrong tree with my thinking here LBR, but I am looking to use the machines firing capability to determine proper arrow combinations, period. Once I find that the bow/arrow combo is capable of doing its job, then I can remove any doubts about where the problem with accuracy is coming from.


I'd love to have a shooting machine anyway, just to play with. I could see for myself what kind of speed differences you get with different strings, see if there's really any noticeable draw weight variances at full draw, watch what happens when you pull a [email protected] bow to only 24 inches...it would be tons of fun. I know folks who have already done this, but it would be interesting to do it myself, just for further verification.
This too…..:) I have always been a "need to know" kind of guy. The more data I have on stuff, the better I understand it. Although I switched to traditional gear only 3 years ago now, due to issues with work I have not been able to devote a lot of time to shooting lately. I shoot because I love to fling arrows, but I am a hunter at heart. I prefer to label myself as practical rather than overly ethical, and having taken well over 200 big game animals with stick and string myself, plus following up on several times that number of arrow hit critters due to being an outfitter, I simply will not take shots that I am not completely confident of a successful outcome. Right now I am basically limited to hunting black bear and hogs over bait, because I can set up inside of 15 yards. I don`t want to spend what is left of my hunting life hunting only these two animals.

I had to teach myself to shoot a compound bow correctly, because back then we did not have any internet, or much in the way of organized shooting where I grew up other than field courses. Back then field courses were full of fun folks, but they were littered with coolers full of beer and most of the shooters were not that good.

I was able to make a 300/50X NFAA 300 round a bad day with my compound bows, and with all the info I can gather from sites like this, and attending traditional shoots/competitions, I think that I can push myself to at least 275 range accuracy with my traditional gear, and that will allow me the confidence to extend my hunting range a couple of yards, and feel fine with hunting deer,elk, etc like I did with wheel bows.
 

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I am looking to use the machines firing capability to determine proper arrow combinations, period.
That's why I think it will be a problem. Release varies from one person to the next, and can vary with the same person. Some archers have an amazingly clean release, and can get by with a much larger range than someone with a consistently lousy release. They there are those who's release bounces around.

I understand and appreciate the goal, I just can't see a machine doing it. A shooting machine's purpose is to eliminate the human factor--I don't know how you could realistically build it back in. Even if you get the perfect arrow on the machine, it may or may not be the right arrow when you shoot it.

I had to teach myself to shoot a compound bow correctly, because back then we did not have any internet,...
Same here, with compounds and sticks. IMO the internet is the best and worst thing to ever happen to our sport. Lots of great info. to be shared, but on the flip side anyone can be a keyboard Robin Hood if they can talk a good game, without ever actually doing anything with a bow. That's why I'm so adamant about checking out credentials. But anyway...

I think good form is the key to getting the answers you are looking for. The best resource for that I know of, shy of getting personal coaching, is Masters of the Barebow Volume III. If you can catch a Rod Jenkins clinic, it's well worth the money. Rod is also familiar with shooting machines--you might contact him @ www.safarituff.com and get his input.

Chad
 

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Chad, this is only an assumption on my part, but I "think" that any finger release archer who is consistently good, even if not world class good, will share a very similar release. I cannot fathom one enjoying any real degree of consistency without employing a crisp, clean string dump, minus any more horizontal string deflection than absolutely necessary.

And as far as the internet goes, I agree with you 100%. Having met more people than I can begin to remember in real life, AND discussing various issues with folks via the world wide web in large numbers as well, I long ago developed a knack for quickly separating the wheat from the fly spec. :wink:

Thanks for the tips on the reading material and on Rod Jenkins. I have seen a lot of references on the mans ability to teach, all positive. I can make time to read, but right now my time for classes is minimal at best.

Back to my machine idea…….once I make a release that I feel mimics a decent string dump, then see good results from a bow/arrow combination, I feel that I can self teach myself to a fairly decent level of performance.

I do have an ace in the hole already. While never a national contender with trad gear, my best hunting buddy was the IBO national champ with compound barebow (MCU) when the IBO was fairly new. When I switched to trad bows, he switched with me. I was in shock at how good he was right out of the gate, and said as much to him. He laughed and told me that he used to shoot recurves/longbows when he was a young man. Some questions from me made him reveal that he held the PSAA(PA State Archery Association) indoor 20 yard record with both longbow and recurve for many years. He has been a big help.
 

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For what it’s worth, and IMO, I don’t think it’s worth the mental energy trying to mimic a finger release by mechanical means…as both will always be sufficiently different. For any purpose I might be interested in exploring, using a clicker (and a sight, if desired…but why?...just move the target) would most likely provide reasonably informative data.

There is always an “averaging” component (of sorts) to finger shooting…and as much as we might try to eliminate it, we cannot not be people…__it happens. But, I strongly suspect that a shooting machine has the potential to limit finger shooting variables to a smaller than realistic margin…and I’d be satisfied with that.

Really doesn’t cost much to go with what you got, in order to find out. At “worst,” I would think that comparing your fingers to some mechanical counterpart should also be in order. Guess I'm just a ducks-in-a-row kinda guy. Enjoy, Rick.
 
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